The Rosie and Roula Show

225: Why We Avoid Talking About Death - Let's Plan Without Being Morbid

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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Roula turns 52 and has a quiet birthday filled with reflection — and it sparks a conversation most of us spend our lives avoiding: death.

In this episode, Rosie and Roula talk openly (and surprisingly lightly) about why we don’t prepare for what happens after we die, even though it’s the one guaranteed thing in life. From wills, passwords and practical planning, to funerals, legacy, culture, money, and how much pressure we leave behind for the people we love.

Roula shares her thoughts on wanting a celebration instead of a funeral, the importance of making things easier for her kids, and how different cultures handle death very differently. Rosie reflects on losing both parents young, the complications that come when there’s no plan, and why avoiding these conversations helps absolutely no one.

This isn’t about being morbid. It’s about honesty, care, legacy, and living well — right up until the end.

What conversations are you avoiding now that might make life easier for the people you love later?

Topics Covered:

  • Why we avoid talking about death
  •  Planning for what happens after we die
  •  Wills, passwords, and practical preparation
  •  Legacy and what we leave behind
  •  Funerals versus celebrations of life
  •  Cultural differences around death and mourning
  •  The emotional burden left on loved ones

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Rosie (00:00)
How was your birthday, Roula?

Roula (00:03)
Yeah, it was very calm and quiet and nice. I'll go out celebrate it on Saturday. So yesterday it was it was a day of reflection because I was alone at home.

Rosie (00:11)
no. ⁓

⁓ a

day of reflection, yeah.

Roula (00:21)
Which bring me to a topic that is, I think it's a crazy topic that we run away from.

Rosie (00:29)
Okay.

Roula (00:41)
So much happened with...

My experiences from the last day we recorded and for the listeners, we record every Thursday the episode for the upcoming week. Sometimes we have a lot in the bank, but now we don't, run out. So we're very ad hoc. Is this the right word? I don't know. Yeah.

Rosie (00:47)
Mm.

I suppose. You

hear the episodes the week after we record them at the moment, whereas in the past it's maybe four weeks to six weeks, the lag.

Roula (01:10)
Yeah. And this is why this information is because it might be that the common five episodes that you will listen to, there are a lot of reflections that I had on my birthday day because I had plenty of time to reflect and think.

Rosie (01:28)
Which I think is good. You turned 52?

Roula (01:33)
I turned 52, yes.

Rosie (01:37)
That's pretty cool.

Roula (01:39)
And I didn't know that this number is quite remarkable. I'll tell you why. Let me take a sip of my coffee.

Rosie (01:45)
Okay.

Roula (01:48)
Okay, here we are. What I want to talk about today, Rosie, is that how we avoid preparing for after our death.

Rosie (02:05)
fuck, yeah, wow, this is an important topic, yeah.

Roula (02:11)
And I'm saying it with a smile on my face because this should not be morose. It should not be like the end of our hopes and dreams. It should be, hear me out, a plan in our future life.

Rosie (02:20)
you

Okay.

Roula (02:26)
What brought me to this thought is when I turned 50, I felt like it's a joke. I'm 50. I don't feel 50. I'm still with the mentality of I have the whole world in front of me. I have all the time. Yeah. Oh, I still look good for 50 and I still wear like I'm 30 and all this stuff. You know, like I can stay a little bit later at night or whatever. But now I go at 10 to bed.

Rosie (02:36)
huh.

I'm still standing. Fuck yeah.

Roula (02:56)
And then I turned 51 and I started thinking, that's serious. I'm going to words in your face of my life. And I was very scared because I'm scared to the most thing I'm scared of to miss out on my kids and my grandkids on their life. This is my biggest fear.

Rosie (03:05)
Yes.

Right.

Roula (03:20)
And then yesterday I turned 52 and I thought, fuck, I must make sure when I die, I don't leave shit for my kids to deal with.

Rosie (03:32)
so true.

Yeah.

Roula (03:34)
And this brought me to this thought today. I really like to know how people, ⁓ what do you call it, my legacy? What they live after.

Rosie (03:43)
Yeah, it

is a It is a legacy. Why do we avoid thinking about what's going to happen after we die? Because you said it doesn't have to be morose. And I think you're right. Why don't we look at it with, well, what am I leaving behind or what? Yeah. What is my legacy? How do I want to live my life to make sure I can achieve that legacy? Right. Because you are in a different chapter. You're probably it's

or it's something that goes through my mind. I'm how much younger am I than you? What are you 52 and I'm 34. So whatever that is different stages of life, but even I think, okay, well, how am I going to spend my money between now and whenever it is I die because do I want to leave money behind or do I want to use that to enrich my life and the lives of those I love whilst I'm alive. Two very different things.

Roula (04:42)
Yes, it's also about so much about thinking it can happen anytime. So, yes, I want to plan for when I'm 84, my mom lived till 84, my father died mid 70s. He was maybe 74 or 75. want to, okay, my plan is to prepare for when I'm very old and die. But what if an accident happened, something unexpected is happening?

Rosie (04:50)
Right.

That's nice.

What if the unexpected happens? Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Roula (05:11)
from knowing what my passwords are to the things that I might have kept and they will come out to bite them. Is it a family secret? Is it something about me they don't know? And I'm not saying that I want to give them all this information now. I'm just thinking how can I safeguard this information and give the key to two persons? My husband?

Rosie (05:16)
Right?

Right.

Yeah.

Roula (05:41)
and another person that I trust. Tell them, in case something happened to me, I want you to open this box and make their life easier.

Rosie (05:50)
Right. Oh, this is so true because think a lot of us tend to think, oh, you know, that I don't need to deal with that right now. Later. I don't need to have a will when I'm 34. But you were saying, what if an accident or the unexpected happens? And that's exactly what happened with my dad. He had an accident. He was 53. There was no will. And that made it very difficult for my mum to navigate, even though

They were married, they had accounts and joint names. It was still difficult for her to resolve all of the things because there was no will. And I don't even know if they spoke about, you know, whether he wanted to be buried or cremated. I have no idea where those conversations had.

Roula (06:36)
yeah, you know, even this. So I said to my husband, when I die, I've always thought I want to be cremated. But then one day, when my daughter was struggling about death, I don't talk about this topic with my kids because children don't want to talk about when their parents die.

Rosie (06:40)
Mmm.

Yes.

Roula (06:56)
And they don't really listen to the podcast. I'm sure they're not listening to this episode. And if they listen to it, it's fine. Okay. I don't talk about my death or anyone's death with my kids. These, I leave this conversation with the grownup people that I trust. And I have these kinds of conversations with. I want to make this clear. It's not something to talk about kids. Yeah.

Rosie (07:01)
Okay.

That's interesting though.

Yeah, like why don't we talk about it with kids though?

Roula (07:19)
What I learned from my kid is that she doesn't want to envision her life without me.

Rosie (07:28)
But it's gonna happen, right?

Roula (07:29)
And she's not,

yeah, it's her thing to deal with. And she was clear she doesn't want to talk about, but not everyone is ready to talk about these topics and she's only 22.

Rosie (07:35)
Mmm.

My dad died when I was 21.

Roula (07:43)
It took me 52 years.

Rosie (07:46)
Yeah.

Roula (07:46)
Yes,

but you didn't talk to him about death, about his what will happen when they die. Or did you?

Rosie (07:53)
Yeah,

but maybe it would have helped if we did. It's always this thing, ⁓ they're going to die when they're older. I don't need to think about it right now. But I feel like we are never ready. Like with dad, it was unexpected. With mum, she died. We had a bit of notice. She had a terminal diagnosis. I still wasn't ready. Like, I don't know if that's a similar experience for you when you lost your parents, but I don't know if we are ever ready. And I don't know what the answer is with talking to our children, but

Roula (07:57)
Yeah.

Never.

Rosie (08:24)
feel like some sort of discussion, age appropriate, whatever that means, but if we ignore death, where does that leave us when we do lose our loved ones?

Roula (08:35)
The conversations, they come casually whenever death happens. it a friend, some family member? Because we're living and their grandfather, their grandparents passed away. So we have conversation about death. And because of these conversations, I understood from my daughter, she has the need and also in her religion and her belief, because she has her personality and her own beliefs. She wants a place to go to, to visit me.

Rosie (08:41)
you

Mmm.

Roula (09:07)
So this is what I said to my husband. Okay, listen, after I die, I really don't care what happens to me because I'm not religious. Whether you're going to cremate me, whether you're going to bury me, I don't care. Do what feels good for the ones I'm leaving behind because they're the one who have to find a place to talk to me, to be with me, whatever. They can decide later at that moment what they want. What I want, though, I want a

Rosie (09:24)
you

Roula (09:36)
party and I don't want a funeral. I don't want people to go and sit on benches and people go behind the mic and talk about me because this is it goes in the Netherlands. In Lebanon, it's in the church. No one talks, only the priest read from the book. No one, it's like it says nothing about the person who died and you don't have any personal relationship, any personal take during the funeral. And I'm like, listen,

Rosie (09:46)
Yeah, yeah.

Wow.

Mm.

Roula (10:04)
You have my phone, you have my password, you have my playlists. You know who's my favorite music. What's my favorite music? Cause this is what counts a lot to me. When I die, I want a big party. I want people to dance, to listen to music, to have fun. This is what I want. And he respect that. Every day I come up with something new, you know, where he's sometimes it's like, write them down. It's like,

Rosie (10:22)
Mmm, mmm.

of a, I love the thought of a celebration

but it just, I just had another thought which I probably, hadn't really considered before when you said your daughter told you she would like a place to go and visit you and you said well yeah actually I'll be dead what's it to me? Maybe the same could apply with well you want a party but what does, what are the ones left behind want?

Roula (10:55)
⁓ gosh, you got me with this question!

Rosie (10:57)
you

Roula (11:00)
Yes!

Rosie (11:02)
Who is it for?

Roula (11:04)
Well then we have to compromise. Either I'm gonna be cremated or I'm gonna have a party. They can't have everything. ⁓

Rosie (11:06)
Yeah, right.

Yeah, right.

And maybe, you know, why not talk about these things? And it's good that we can talk and have a little laugh about it. It doesn't have to be depressing. Although death is... Death is...

Roula (11:19)
Yes, it doesn't have to be depressed. And it's not always

about the real estate and about the money. It's really for me, it's more about how I want to be celebrated, the person who I am in authenticity. I'm a person who loves music and I love to go and meet friends and dance. I don't want my funeral to be boring.

Rosie (11:34)
in.

Yeah. And like when someone dies, that's just the beginning of it. The people left behind, they have to organize the funeral and there's all these decisions, music, photos, events, food, whatever, all this pressure. So like, what if you organized? What if you just wrote down, here's what we're doing. You just organize it. Here's the playlist saved, ready, done, here. Here's the everything. Yeah.

Roula (12:05)
He's the flower shop. He's the caterer.

You know, it's also so expensive. Funerals are the opposite of weddings and they're so expensive. You tell me.

Rosie (12:12)
Oh my God. Oh, so expensive. It is

such a rort. I think it's unethical. You know, I remember, because both my parents were cremated and I remember when mum died, we were looking at, what are they called? Urns that you put the ashes in. And through the funeral parlour for just, I wanted something wooden and they had a wooden box that wasn't even that nice. $800 they wanted. And I just thought,

the hell? No! And so ended up a friend who was a woodworker ended up crafting something for us. It was beautiful but the coffins are expensive, the urns, everything, every little thing and then they want to charge you to put together photos that they do a shitty job on anyway. I could rent for hours, Roula I think it is so unethical how much they charge. It's not right.

Roula (13:07)
It's a very lucrative business. People will die. you know, also culturally, they judge on what kind of funeral people are having. There is a judgment whether someone had a humble funeral with no expenses or someone who had an expensive funeral. People want to be treated when they go to someone's funeral, you know? I don't understand that. Of course, there is traditional thing that is beautiful, like

Rosie (13:09)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Mmm.

Ugh.

Roula (13:36)
the tradition in Lebanon, which apart from the church thing, and I do respect everyone's religion, it just, think my pain is that I didn't have the chance to say a word about my parents, which I really wanted. And that makes me very sad. And when I asked to say a word, the question, the answer from my siblings was, but we don't do these things here. That was the reason.

Rosie (13:38)
Mm.

Yeah.

Roula (14:01)
And it's still I'm so sad because I wanted to tell the world so many things about my parents and I couldn't. Anyway, this is a side note. The nice part of the funerals in Lebanon is that you serve lunch to the people that came on that day. Lunch is a really good lunch, like meat and rice and pastries.

Rosie (14:06)
Mmm!

We have so much to say on this.

Roula (14:26)
all the good food you can find in the Middle East, it will be on this table for the lunch. Preparing it and getting it is difficult, a lot of work, very expensive, etc. But it is a kind of celebration. People get together, they eat, they remember, they talk, they laugh. I love the spirit in having a funeral in Lebanon. In the Netherlands, it's the most morose thing I've ever seen in my life.

Rosie (14:37)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (14:57)
You go

to this place where it's like a room, like a meeting room or like a theater. I can't find the word, honestly. You have coffee, tea, maybe cookies, some cheese sandwiches, and then you leave.

Rosie (15:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, that's the tradition

here too. That's the tradition here and for both of my parents we didn't do that because what the fuck is that for? I just, I don't get it.

Roula (15:22)
I was like, everyone is scared to talk about this deceased person. While in Lebanon, the memories of everyone's coming over and talking about the deceased is just you forget if that person was a good or a bad person. Because when people bring their stories and you're eating all together, it's a beautiful moment. Of course, after that, you're left with the grief, with the sadness. But these three days of mourning with people.

Rosie (15:26)
⁓

Yeah.

Right.

Roula (15:50)
around you are healing.

Rosie (15:52)
Yes,

yeah, there needs to be some healing.

Roula (15:58)
So it's a combination and to go back to our... I like this topic honestly. It's a good one I think. I hope the listeners will listen.

Rosie (16:04)
Yeah, it is a good topic.

Yeah, I mean, why do we avoid talking about these things and planning for our, I don't know what you call it, you know, after our death or leading up to our death? I think we have been taught that death is a, it's a horrible thing, it's a sad thing, which yes, there are those parts to it, but death is inevitable. That is the one thing guaranteed in life. You will die.

Roula (16:09)
you

Rosie (16:39)
So why do we avoid it? It is ridiculous, absolutely nonsensical. Who does it help? Nobody, by not talking about it.

Roula (16:48)
Yes, with lighthearted jokes and fun, we can get lot of funny ideas from watching movies about funny funerals. I don't know, like Four Weddings and Funeral, this old movie, or comedy series or regular series with awkward funeral scenes. There is so much we can learn from that and prepare.

Rosie (16:57)
Mm.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (17:15)
⁓ It's not everyone is ready for this conversation, but I hope on this topic and with my cup of coffee, by the way, if you like to buy a cup of coffee, don't wait for our funeral. Please do it. Do it when you listen to this episode.

Rosie (17:35)
Yeah.

Roula (17:35)
And yeah, some

laughter. It helps. I think it helps very much.

Rosie (17:40)
It does help. We just approach it with balance, don't we? I think.

Roula (17:44)
Yes, we do. On this note, I'm not going to drag people anymore in this conversation. Maybe they don't want to go into it anymore.

Rosie (17:54)
⁓ Come on, people! Yeah. ⁓

Roula (17:54)
Thanks for listening.