The Rosie and Roula Show

How Self-Aware Are You, Really?

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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Tis’ the season of family gatherings, awkward conversations, and maybe a joke that lands a little wrong. In this episode, Rosie and Roula dive into the delicate art of self-awareness: how to recognize when your words hurt someone—and what to do about it.

With laughs, honesty, and a few personal stories (tantrums included), they explore how to navigate those tricky moments without shutting down—or going full angry frog.

You’ll learn about:

  • Beginner-level self-awareness and why it matters
  • Handling being called out without crumbling
  • Why honesty alone isn’t enough; action counts
  • How our closest relationships teach us the hardest lessons
  • Keeping your cool when emotions want to hijack the room

This episode is your holiday toolkit for navigating tricky conversations with grace, laughter, and maybe just a little reflective queen energy.

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Roula (00:12)
We're continuing with this episode, but we finished in the previous one about people making condescending and belittling jokes. And we wanted to talk about self-awareness so that, ⁓ I mean, self-awareness is about so much we do in our life, but that conversation is a good opening for self-awareness. And where would be your self-awareness when I tell you the joke you're making?

Rosie (00:20)
Mm-hmm.

That would hurt. think my gut react... Hypothetic, okay. Yeah, you hinting at something here? I think my instinct would be to get defensive. That's what we do. Like, no, I didn't mean to do that. But it's... ⁓ shit, like it would be a wake-up moment. ⁓ fuck, my words hurt somebody I really care about. Whoa.

Roula (00:42)
is hurtful.

Hypothetically.

Rosie (01:11)
And you know what, I would be reflecting on that beyond the conversation of you telling me, hey, I don't find that funny. Like that would be going through my mind probably for days, weeks possibly afterwards, just reflecting on, well, why did I say that?

And I...

Roula (01:29)
But Rossi,

you are in an advanced stage.

Rosie (01:32)
I got my black belt in self-awareness.

No.

Roula (01:39)
And

you know, not everyone in this advanced stage, how would self-awareness for a beginner look like?

Rosie (01:43)
⁓ so are we teaching people? ⁓

Maybe it's just going, ⁓ thank you for telling me that. Don't go blurtin' out, I didn't, like, no, just, you can't take a joke, no, no. No. Why are you saying that? You're invalidating that other person's feelings. It is not your feelings that you're talking about. It is their feelings. And they've just said it's not funny. So, thank you for telling me that. And...

if you can do it without being sarcastic, I think you should apologize. Some people aren't capable of that. So don't say sorry if you don't mean it. I think you should definitely say thank you for telling me. And then you need to go away and think about it.

Roula (02:20)
Oof.

Rosie (02:31)
Go to the naughty corner.

Roula (02:32)
And the self-awareness

plays, I think, a role in the entire day of the person who is a beginner and not self-aware yet. I'm saying beginner because some people don't even know what self-awareness is.

Rosie (02:42)
What?

True.

So you, okay, you just said for a beginner, self-awareness is like, you'd be thinking about it all day. So I think you're an advanced self-awareness person too. So does that mean you're not thinking about these things all day?

because that comment intrigues me.

Roula (03:07)
thinking,

yes, there's a difference. So the beginner of self-awareness is someone who's confronted with these moments throughout their day by something they said to their spouse, by a reaction they have with their kids, thinking, talking to someone outside and feel, I don't know, whatever defensiveness or whatever feeling they have. Beginner is not yet aware that they don't have control

Rosie (03:20)
I see.

Roula (03:37)
over how people feel, they do have control over how they react, say things, the words that come out of our mouth. a beginner self-aware person doesn't know that it's on them to think about the hurtful stuff they said.

Rosie (03:57)
comes back to accountability, doesn't it?

Roula (04:00)
⁓ yes, yes, yes. You know, I don't think my self-awareness has raised to the level it is now. If I haven't had tough conversations with my kids, tough conversations with my husband, these are my tools, my courses, my workshops on self-awareness, being confronted with my behavior. You know, long time ago in 2000,

Rosie (04:01)
Always

Mmm... Mmm.

Yes.

Roula (04:30)
12 maybe. In these years after my divorce, I was searching for my identity because from living with my parents, I lived with my husband in the Netherlands, start integrating. I didn't know who I am. There was a lot of anger in me. And at home, I was angry, impatient, don't want things not to go my way.

Rosie (04:48)
Mmm.

Roula (04:58)
I want my kids, when I say go to bed, that they, okay, sir, we're going to bed. I didn't have any tolerance in me. And then they told me, my kids and my new boyfriend at that time is my husband now. They said to me that I have to do something about it. They said to me, I'm not, they described me that I'm not self-aware.

Rosie (04:58)
Yeah.

Mmm.

A boyfriend!

Roula (05:26)
of my reactions toward them. Because I keep doing it.

And then I found a super nice workshop. That was my first step in self-awareness ⁓ journey. I found a workshop. It's called in Dutch, Driftkicker. And that's the angry ⁓ kicker, grenouille. I can't remember the name. Frog. Yeah. The angry frog. And I went to the workshop. There were 10 people there, all parents.

Rosie (05:48)
Frog. Frog. Yeah.

Roula (06:00)
full-time working. I was working also full-time and the things I get really some goosebumps talking about it because what this guy at the workshop showed us how ridiculous our behavior is in refusing to slow down and reflect on our behavior.

Rosie (06:25)
Mm.

Roula (06:28)
I'm so grateful that they told me to go and I'm so grateful that I did not work against it. I could have told them, you go and get better. You have to listen to me. Why do I have to go to an anger management workshop? And that was really the starter of self-awareness for me.

Rosie (06:39)
Yeah, yeah.

You

You know, I can't even imagine you as being someone who's not self-aware because it is so far removed from the ruler you are today and the ruler that I know. But just goes to show, nobody's perfect. Like you don't, I don't think you're just born and you're a perfect person and so self-aware and accountable for everything. Like what a load of rubbish. Some of us might naturally be better at it. None of us are necessarily good at it at the beginning.

Roula (07:24)
I had so much anger in me. I had so much anger. I grew up in a war. I grew up also in a household that life wasn't easy in my household. didn't, I don't know, I'm not gonna go into the darker side. What I want to say is that I have had always self-awareness, but too proud to act on it.

Rosie (07:51)
⁓

wow. Well, it's confronting, isn't it? Because it's facing up to parts of ourselves that we don't necessarily like, that aren't very nice. What do I? ⁓

Roula (07:55)
Mm.

And it's not a weakness, we think it's a weakness to

be self-aware.

Rosie (08:07)
Really? You think it's a what? Really? ⁓ I see. I see. I thought you meant the skill of being self-aware. Okay. Yeah, no, that's right. And what sometimes I have to remind myself of is just because I did a not nice thing doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

Roula (08:10)
Yes, admitting what you did wrong, what you said wrong. Yeah. No.

Okay, but keep saying the wrong things. Others will lose their trust.

Rosie (08:29)
well yeah, that's fucked. Well exactly. And I mean, let me

clarify, let me clarify. Not as an excuse, but as a reminder because I can end up down this rabbit hole. my God, I just said this awful thing. How could I do that? I'm such a horrible person. And then that's just not productive. What you need to go is, whoa, I did a horrible thing. I showed up as somebody I don't want to be. So what am I going to do about it? And how am I going to try and, if you want to keep the connection with this person and,

What's the word? Not heel. You know what I mean. I heard you pussycat. He's going... Okay.

Roula (09:04)
Just a second, it's going crazy. One moment.

Rosie (09:08)
How have we been recording for nine minutes already? God, we talk a lot.

That was quick. Okay.

Roula (09:14)
Okay,

he's in front of the... he wants me to open the door. Yes!

Rosie (09:21)
He wants to be on the podcast.

So yes, I think for someone like me who can ruminate on it and ⁓ get in the negative shame spiral, your cat, meow meow meow meow meow, I think he should go on the mic and just give us his opinion for a minute.

or Hello Handsome.

Roula (09:40)
Say

hi! Say hi! You're on camera! You're on camera! Look how cute! Hey! ⁓ now he's tangled in my...

Rosie (09:43)
You gotta watch this on YouTube. he's so handsome! Now you're quiet, not so chatty now.

That wasn't very elegant, it?

Roula (10:03)
have to look back at it.

not self aware at all

It keeps doing crazy stuff. Yes, so indeed. mean, this is is a bit of a big topic. Yeah, as always.

Rosie (10:20)
But like you said, let me, it is a big topic

and the way you responded actually is really important because there's two extremes, isn't there? You know, reminding me self, okay, it doesn't make me a bad person, but also owning, I did a horrible thing and owning up, if you keep doing this, well, that's kind of showing you're not a very nice person, isn't it? And what are you going to do about it?

Roula (10:47)
Yes, because you know when someone over and over again is not being self-aware, they're not nice. What is nice?

Rosie (10:57)
So true... ⁓

they're fake!

They present as someone they're not as well, I think.

Roula (11:07)
Yes, they're not willing to work on themselves. And this podcast is about working on ourselves. Despite, you know, the crazy topics we talk about, it is to like hold the mirror and work on ourselves to have a better life.

Rosie (11:12)
They're not living in reality.

So true.

You know, we have never said that ruler,

I love it. The podcast is about working ourselves, holding up a mirror. I love this. It's true.

Roula (11:32)
Yeah. Practice self-awareness. Nothing comes easy and nothing happens overnight. The key is to accept what others are saying because they don't want to hurt us. Yes, they're asking us to treat them better. So why do we refuse to do that?

Rosie (11:37)
⁓

That's their truth!

Enough just...

Yeah, they've just been really vulnerable with us. So if you're shoving it back in their face, whoa.

Roula (12:02)
they will never want to be vulnerable again. And this hurts trust.

Rosie (12:04)
Mmm.

Roula (12:08)
And to go back to the belittling jokes we would hear, which is the previous episode. Yes, telling, being vulnerable and telling someone you're hurting me with your joke. Who cares if they think we are weak? Who cares if they think we're not laughing at a joke? We're too taking ourselves serious or we're too sensitive. Why do we care? They hurt us.

Rosie (12:16)
Mmm.

Roula (12:37)
So we still have to care about their feelings to validate their joke? No.

Rosie (12:43)
I struggle with that. I, I, um...

I'm trying to think when I have pulled people up on jokes I don't find funny. ⁓ I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've done it because it makes me feel so uncomfortable and I...

I have to be prepared for the aftermath of it. There's going to be a reaction to whatever it is I say. And so do I have the strength or the capacity even to deal with that? So I think in the times I have pulled people up on it, it's people I know really well. I have a memory of pulling my dad up on something once. ⁓ And was it really?

Roula (13:27)
It doesn't have to

be a conversation, Rosie.

Rosie (13:31)
Yeah, but there's always going to be a response, you know what I mean?

Roula (13:35)
You repeat what we just said. You can just tell them your joke was hurtful and I don't accept it. No matter what they say, you only repeat the sentence. I also learned this in therapy.

Rosie (13:47)
God, all this self-awareness. I hear you, I definitely hear you, but I still listening to you say that I'm like, but it's so hard. And the reason why I brought up the example with my dad is that it was someone I was close with and so sitting in that discomfort was less scary. I was less afraid to stand up to him because it's someone I loved and trusted. Whereas if it was, for example, living in a van, you come across other travelers.

Roula (14:09)
you

Rosie (14:16)
and you might sit together around a campfire or have a chat, you don't know them necessarily very well, and they'll say jokes that aren't necessarily funny. Would I pull them up in that sort of situation? You know what, I probably wouldn't.

Roula (14:29)
strangers choose your battles but you know what Rosie it's not easy it's so damn hard the only difference consistency

Rosie (14:37)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Roula (14:42)
When you're not consistent, the other will also not learn that they need to stop. It doesn't stop from the first time and you will not feel triumphant from the first time. You will feel like shit and guilty and bad and all these feelings. But if you decide to stop doing it, it means you're not standing up enough for yourself. So it's very difficult saying this.

Rosie (14:47)
That's true. That's true!

Yeah, that's true.

Roula (15:11)
with full conviction, it is not easy. But this is what makes you stronger.

Rosie (15:13)
you

I'm glad you said that. ⁓

yeah. And you know what? One thing it brings to mind, I'm a big fan of Brene Brown and something she says is clear is kind, unclear is unkind. And that's all about boundaries. If you are clear with people what your boundaries are, that's kind. How are they going to know?

Roula (15:30)
Yes.

Rosie (15:38)
what you don't find funny, what's okay, what's not okay, if you don't articulate that.

Roula (15:45)
Yeah. I have, I'll give you an example, a very quick one, straight to your point for what you said.

Rosie (15:51)
Mm-hmm.

Roula (15:54)
When I was not clear with my children, we had arguments. When I was afraid to hurt their feelings, so instead of saying no, a clear no, I was leaving them in limbo. Yes, maybe, ⁓ let me see, let me think. We were arguing. And when I started saying clear no without a monologue, without the explanation, just no, we stopped arguing.

Rosie (15:58)
Hmm.

⁓

Bye now.

Roula (16:23)
I feel like I earned the respect.

Rosie (16:25)
Yeah, wah, I mean, parenthood's a whole other kettle of fish, right? But it applies, it's almost like it exacerbates it. It's so important. And one thing I wanna add before we just go on and on and on is when you set this boundary, you need to be prepared to follow through.

What's the consequence if this person does not respect that boundary? If you just put up with them telling condescending jokes like we were talking about earlier in the other episode or if whatever it is, if you don't follow through on the boundary, they're not going to take you seriously. It's human nature.

Roula (17:11)
like Mel Robbins says, let them and let me and let me work on my boundaries. No, but this is so valuable. She said it's not only let them, it's let them. The important part is let me keep my boundaries. Let me love myself. Let me get away of them because they're toxic.

Rosie (17:17)
Yes, let them... You don't even like Mel Robbins! This is hilarious, but it is...

Yeah, I like that.

Roula (17:44)
If you're not self aware, you are toxic. Am I being generalizing? I don't know. I don't know.

Rosie (17:49)
Yes, you are,

but I agree. It is toxic. But do we all have our moments where we're not self-aware? Of course we do. Of course we do. We're only human. And even someone like Rula who's really confident and holds strong convictions about accountability, just rewind to earlier when Rula said, it's not easy. Remind yourself, it's not easy.

Roula (17:57)
Yeah!

Rosie (18:13)
But I think life's better when you are self-aware. You'll discover who you are. You'll have nicer people in your life, better relationships.

Roula (18:21)
When I'm not self-aware and I'm called out on it and I still resist it, I take, I like remove myself, think about it. And when I come back, I only have this sentence that is sincere. I'll do better next time.

Rosie (18:36)
Mm.

Wow.

Roula (18:41)
I can't guarantee, but I'll do better next time.

Rosie (18:46)
I mean it's honest, isn't it?

Yeah. On that note, everybody, are you self-aware? If you're not, I don't think you'd be listening to this podcast. So I think you're all self-aware. I think you're all awesome. What's your self-awareness journey being like? Did you go to an angry frog workshop? I think it should have been called angry toad. We have things here called cane toads. They're really ugly and have like pustules on their back and they're poisonous. when you're not self-aware, you're gross like a toad.

Roula (19:12)
⁓

⁓

I don't know why this is it's Dutch. So probably it has a different meaning why it's a frog kicker, drift kicker. All right, my dear listener, we gave you a longer episode than normal, but we find this topic very important and we want you all to enjoy your life and your relationships. So yes, be self aware.

Rosie (19:25)
Frog. Mmm.

Bye.

Roula (19:44)
Bye!