The Rosie and Roula Show

214: Are You The One Who Always Initiates? The Truth About Sex, Desire And Rejection

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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This one goes deep into the awkward reality of desire, rejection and the unspoken rules we bring into sex. We talk about why one person usually does most of the initiating, why rejection stings even when it’s said kindly, and how mismatched sex drives don’t automatically mean there's a relationship crisis. We also unpack the myth that men want sex more than women, why shame still shapes our sex lives, and how connection outside the bedroom often decides what happens inside it.

We also get into performance pressure, asexuality, fantasies, the “acceptable amount of sex” nonsense, and all the ways society quietly tells you how your desire should work. It’s messy, honest and probably the most real conversation we’ve had on intimacy yet.


The Book Roula's mentions is called "Want" by Gillian Anderson.


What’s the conversation about sex or desire you think couples avoid the most?


TOPICS COVERED

  • Why one person often initiates more
  • Why rejection in the bedroom feels so personal
  • Mismatched sex drives and what they really mean
  • The myth that men always want sex more than women
  • Shame, social conditioning and desire
  • How connection outside the bedroom impacts intimacy
  • Why performance pressure kills desire
  • Asexuality and the desire spectrum
  • Why “how often should you have sex” is a useless question


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Roula (00:00)
Rosie, Rosie, I don't know where is this episode is going. All right. I do know that there is this conversation about who initiates sex. And is the person constantly initiating sex getting

Rosie (00:07)
Yeah, huh?

Roula (00:24)
as if aggressive that the other person never initiates sex.

Rosie (00:27)
you

Roula (00:30)
What are your thoughts on this topic?

Rosie (00:46)
I have a feeling that many couples, when they just heard you said that...

Will be leaning forward, listening.

Roula (00:57)
So let's give them something value, their ears.

Rosie (00:59)
Let's give

them something valuable, oh dear, no pressure. Tell me if you disagree with this. I think there often is, and I'm just talking from my experience, but I think there often is one person in the relationship who tends to initiate more.

Roula (01:02)
you

I think it depends on the sex drive. Some people have a higher sex drive than others. And also some people can have a sex drive regardless how their day is going. There are so many factors to our sex drive.

Rosie (01:21)
Mm.

Mmm.

And it's different for everybody, isn't it? Mmm.

Roula (01:33)
Yes, but we expect

that we are reciprocating the desire because we all want to feel wanted.

Rosie (01:46)
Yes, and I feel like this is an important piece of the conversation because if the person who's initiating gets rejected, the other person says no.

If that keeps happening, yeah, they might get passive aggressive because your feelings get hurt. How can you not take that personally? It's such a vulnerable thing to do.

Roula (02:09)
Yes, when someone is the initiator and gets pushed back, there is something deeper than desire that is not being met. There is something that the other person who doesn't want to have sex is going through, that there is a problem in the relationship, in the connection. Of course. No, no, I'm saying if every time they get pushed back.

Rosie (02:29)
Yeah, but can't people just say no? Like, is that, you're just saying there's an issue. Can't it just be like, you know what, I don't feel like it. ⁓

okay, okay, yeah. If it's becoming a pattern kind of thing.

Roula (02:39)
Yeah, yeah. On the

contrary, it's healthy to say no, not today. You know, as long as it's said in a loving way, in a caring way, we don't want to push each other in a way that feels that the rejection feels stronger than the care.

Rosie (02:45)
Right, you shouldn't have to feel obliged.

Mmm. Yes. Yes.

Roula (03:02)
And it's all in the

words that we use.

Rosie (03:06)
And you know, it's often said, and I believe this is a myth, but intimacy coach Roula please tell me your thoughts. It's often said, or even said as gospel, like this is it. Men have a higher sex drive than women. That is just seems to be a blanket rule. I'm calling bullshit, but what do you think?

Roula (03:30)
It's such a bullshit. And we think that men want sex every time or anytime. Whenever they lay their eyes on a naked woman or they see us bending to pick up a sock from the floor, they will get horny. No, it's not true. And there are women who have a higher sex drive than men. Actually, women after 50 have higher sex drive than men.

Rosie (03:32)
Mm.

right.

Ha ha ha!

Yeah.

Wow.

Roula (03:56)
because

women don't have the pressure anymore to produce, to look after the family, etc. Then they feel, now I can enjoy sex. Yes. And to go back to your question, we also grow in a society where women are taught that men have a higher sex drive because we should women are shamed for having sex drive.

Rosie (04:20)
Yes,

yes, that's true.

Roula (04:23)
So it's all a big lie.

Lie for men because men have this pressure if they don't feel like having sex then they're less of a man.

Rosie (04:30)
Oh, oh. And almost, and do you think there's also maybe if the woman wants it too much, like that's not okay either. Like the man's expected to just want it all the time. I want to hump like a rabbit. And the woman, it's like, well, no, you you've got to have a bit of class. can't, you can't just want to fuck all the time. Just.

Roula (04:33)
while they're just being normal.

so she's just she's trying to be reserved that

Rosie (05:02)
reserved.

She might really want it but you you can't be too keen.

Roula (05:07)
That's very personal. I wonder why would someone deprive themselves from the pleasure of sex just to be reserved.

Rosie (05:15)
Yeah, yeah, I feel like in some...

Like this isn't my experience, but I feel like that does exist in some circles. Maybe it's a class thing, I don't know, but I do think a bit of that exists.

Roula (05:30)
think it exists. also hear women saying, he wants sex every day. okay. But this is a problem because if he has a higher sex drive than you, you need to have this conversation before you resent him and you have to learn to say no. Otherwise, it's not pleasurable. I don't want to use heavier words, but if you don't say no, he will also not know that you don't want to have sex. And he gets if he gets upset because you don't want to have sex.

Rosie (05:34)
Yes, that's a big complaint.

How are you gonna make this work? Yeah.

Roula (06:00)
then it's really, there must be a better conversation on this topic. Yeah.

Rosie (06:05)
Okay, here's something

for you. And I don't know why this gets my goat. There's like podcasts. ⁓ What's her name? Is it Esther Perel? I'm not sure of her specifically, but you hear like chat shows or just, you know, advice columns or even health, things covering health that if someone isn't having.

what's considered to be an acceptable amount of sex that something's wrong with them. Like there's actually a biological problem and maybe it's hormones or it's this or that and I know that can play a role but why is that the first port of call?

Roula (06:50)
I don't think this is true or I have because there are asexual people and there are people who don't have they have a very low sex drive we're all different it doesn't mean they have something wrong in their in them

Rosie (06:57)
Mm.

You are so

much more progressive, I think, than the typical person. You really are. Because I think this is a thing.

Roula (07:16)
Yes, could be. Look, I believe sex can be in different forms. It doesn't have to be always penetrative and always like the act of sex. No, sex can be flirting, can be with our hands, can be masturbating. Sex does not have to be this high pressure like we always have to perform. We always have to go and do for hours sex and spend the time and sweat and this. Look, I know women.

Rosie (07:25)
you

Roula (07:44)
avoid having sex because in their mind they feel like it's all about the performance and it should take longer than half an hour and I don't have time for this. I'm tired, I want to sleep. Sex can be quick, small, subtle, lovely, without sweat, you choose. The only thing people don't know that they have options.

Rosie (08:00)
You choose. You choose, yeah.

think you're right.

Roula (08:13)
And not knowing they have options, they dread the sex because they feel they want to spend time, perform, whatever.

Rosie (08:18)
Yeah.

Yeah, there's options. What do you want it to look like? Like you said, there's people who don't want sex. There's people who have low sex drive. There's people in the middle. There's people with very high sex drive. Let's not shame those people or assume something's wrong with them. Figure out what works for you. And if you're in a relationship, there is another person there. So you need to have that conversation, even though it might be uncomfortable. And I certainly wasn't taught how to have these conversations.

Roula (08:52)
I wasn't taught either. talking about what I was taught is that when I get married, I just have to serve my husband because he has a higher sex drive. Men need sex every day. This is what I was taught in the culture. What I discovered for myself back then, and I'm saying it now, live on our podcast for the world to hear is that when I was younger,

Rosie (08:54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (09:22)
I had sex drive and I did not believe in this bullshit that I there to serve the needs of my husband. So I was confused and felt wrong like I'm making have making a sin living a bad life. But I want to go back to something that I really like if the listeners, if they're on YouTube, the

Rosie (09:29)
Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. Wow.

Roula (09:51)
put a comment. have a question. Do you think it's important for you first to connect and do fun stuff before you feel the sex drive? How important is it for you to have lovely connection outside the bedroom with your partner in order to get to the bedroom? And I'm saying a bedroom instead of saying sex, sex, whatever. Because I think

Rosie (09:53)
Okay.

Wherever. Yes.

Roula (10:19)
that we all can have a healthy sex drive if we are enjoying quality time together, having fun together, laughing, know, experiencing something new, walking hand in hand somewhere, looking at the beautiful trees in the autumn weather. These little things, even helping each other in the house without asking, you know, these little things.

Rosie (10:24)
Right.

Yeah.

Roula (10:49)
can contribute in bringing back the sex life of a couple, the drive for a couple.

Rosie (10:56)
Mmm, yeah, and I think that's often overlooked.

Roula (11:00)
Yeah, we think, OK, so the kids came back from school. If you have kids or you come back from work, you cook, you eat, you finish. Let's go to bed. We're going to bed. Let's spoon. We spoon. OK, let's have sex. OK, we have to do it. This is how it works sometimes. Yeah, because most of people.

Rosie (11:16)
That sounds awful. Yeah. I mean, but let

me say actually, I better be careful. That might work for some people.

Roula (11:26)
definitely definitely yeah

Rosie (11:26)
That might be what suits them. Yeah. Yeah.

Stop being so damn judgmental, everybody.

Roula (11:34)
It's not an obligation to have sex. It's a lovely thing to do. And truly, if we are in a couple, and this is my personal belief, okay? I personally believe this. If I'm in a couple and we're both not having the sexual desire met in the way we want it, why are we in a couple? Because I don't want to deprive myself from sexual desire because I'm committed to this person

Rosie (11:44)
Mm-hmm.

Roula (12:03)
who completely is not interested. I'm not saying you have to leave the person, you have to divorce, whatever. I'm saying you have to have a conversation in order to give pleasure and meet your needs, both of you.

Rosie (12:06)
Right.

Mm-mm.

Right, yeah, it's okay if your sex drives aren't the same. What's not okay is when you're not talking about it. The other person might not even know how you feel about it or what you need. Maybe you don't even know what you need. You probably don't.

Roula (12:24)
Yeah.

Yes.

That's why it's good to listen to podcasts about sex, to read books. There is so much out there that is really good quality to help us understand our desire. There is a book called Want from Gillian. What's it? Gillian Anderson. She's from the X-Files. She's also from the series. ⁓ I'm going to leave it in the show notes.

Rosie (12:49)
want.

Okay.

Yes.

Roula (13:03)
in years, it took her, I don't know, 10, 15 years, she's gathering the stories of fantasies of women from all over the world. She made a book and each page a woman is telling her sexual fantasy. Reading this book, I got it a gift from my husband. He gifted it to me. So reading the book, open our eyes to

Rosie (13:19)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Roula (13:32)
There is nothing impossible in knowing what your desire is. You don't have to make it all come real because it's fantasy.

Rosie (13:43)
Right, okay, yeah.

Roula (13:45)
But reading about this, it makes you feel normal to want and to have a desire.

Rosie (13:52)
Yeah, you're Whether you have that desire or not, because I know I think it's hard sometimes because there are minorities out there. I think I'm right in saying minority for those who identify as asexual or in that area where sexual attraction maybe is very low or not there. I don't want those people to feel excluded because you're not broken.

Roula (13:55)
Yeah, and you can read it to your partner.

Rosie (14:21)
That's valid too. Wherever you are on that, what do we call it, the desires spectrum, I don't know, it's whatever's right for you. Let's stop going, ⁓ you need to be having sex three times a week, otherwise your relationship's in trouble. Like, really?

Roula (14:29)
Yes?

Rosie (14:41)
Because there's things like that that float around. How many times a week, yeah, how often do you have sex? Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roula (14:43)
Yes, there is. doesn't. This is not relevant. Not relevant. Yeah. Connection

is important. And also maybe here you and Dai, we have a small conflict. I think that sex is so healthy that we must discover where we stand in it.

Rosie (15:11)
Mm-hmm.

Roula (15:14)
Ignoring it completely saying, it's on the bottom of my list. It's possible for some people because they're focused on another area in their lives. But remember that it has so much benefits that it's a shame to put it on the bottom of the list. Mental benefits, physical benefits. It just makes you feel you're on top of the world.

Rosie (15:36)
Rulers saying everybody

go out there and have sex. She's just like, that's her number one bit of advice. Isn't it? I know it. I know it. But you, like, yeah. Right, right. Consensual in how you want it. Yeah. And I think having conversations about it is a good thing. We're all gonna have different opinions. We're all gonna feel differently about it. We're all gonna have different levels of comfort when we talk about it.

Roula (15:43)
Yeah.

The right one, the right sex, the right kind of sex.

Rosie (16:01)
maybe it's about not shying away from the topic. Obviously, sex can get very complicated and for some people there's going to be trauma and things tied up in that. But in general, all aspects of life it's worth reflecting on, don't you think, Roula? And understanding, yeah.

Roula (16:18)
I do.

What I know if the ones that really avoid talking about sex or don't want to hear about it are the ones the least having sex

Rosie (16:31)
Mmm.

Roula (16:32)
And it doesn't mean they are okay with that. They're just scared to tackle the topic because they don't know what's going to come out of it.

Rosie (16:38)
yeah.

That's a big, big thought to be left with, I think. Yeah.

Roula (16:48)
Anyway, this episode for the ones who care about sex because if you don't care about sex this whole episode doesn't doesn't matter for you. If you're listening to this episode it means you want to have a better sex, want you're curious about what other people are experiencing in their sex life and that means a lot.

Rosie (17:07)
Ruella's very happy. She loves talking about intimacy if you hadn't picked up on that. So go buy us a coffee if you enjoyed it and we'll see you in the next one. Bye.