The Rosie and Roula Show

206: Should We Still Have Kids? And Do Children Really Save Marriages? (Parenting, Identity & the Pressure to Get It Right)

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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In this episode, Rosie and Roula dive into the pressures of modern parenting, the myth that children can “save” a struggling marriage, and why so many couples today are asking the big question: Should we still have kids?

They explore how becoming a parent shifts identity — especially for women — and how resentment, overwhelm, and the mental load can silently reshape a relationship. They unpack why society still expects mothers to carry everything while fathers get praised for basic involvement, and how these expectations can erode self-worth and partnership satisfaction.

The conversation goes deeper into how parents lose a sense of identity, why no one feels allowed to say they’re struggling, and how communication often collapses under the weight of “just surviving.”

Listeners also get a surprising look at Gen Alpha’s emotional landscape, reflected in the darker, introspective songs today’s kids love — revealing what they might actually be feeling but not saying.

🎵 Songs Mentioned (Gen Alpha Picks)

Roula highlights the emotional depth in today’s kids’ playlist:

“Puppet” – John Michael Howell

“Medusa” – John Michael HowelL

“Shadow” – Livingstone

These tracks spark a discussion about anxiety, identity, pressure, and the inner world of Gen Alpha.

🎙️ Related Rosie & Roula Episodes to Revisit

If you want to go deeper into themes mentioned in this episode, check out these previous conversations:

Episode 24 – “The Big Question – Kids or Not?”

⭐ What You’ll Hear in This Episode

* The myth of kids “fixing” a marriage

* Why modern parents feel overwhelmed and unsupported

* How identity shifts after becoming a parent

* The unspoken emotional weight mothers carry

* What Gen Alpha’s favorite songs reveal about them

* Why honesty in parenting conversations matters more than ever

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🎙️ Related Rosie & Roula Episodes to Revisit

If you want to go deeper into themes mentioned in this episode, check out these previous conversations:

Episode 24 – “The Big Question – Kids or Not?”

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Roula (00:00)
OK, ⁓ we have an episode to revisit because it happened in my social circle. This conversation is coming up very often. ⁓ But before I say that, I have this song in my mind, Medusa and Puppet and Shadow, three songs I've been singing out loud with my son.

Rosie (00:13)
at your age? Sorry, I couldn't resist that. That was judgy.

Roula (00:30)
because my son, who is Gen Alpha, is introducing me to magical, beautiful songs by YouTube artists.

Rosie (00:39)
Cool, yeah.

Roula (00:41)
⁓ My god, like I get goosebumps just think thinking of these songs They're so beautiful and I keep singing them in my head and if I didn't have my Jen alpha son in the house My gen X wouldn't appreciate YouTube artists I'm so grateful for that

Rosie (00:55)
You never would have heard this music.

True.

Yeah, I love it. You put the songs in the description, Magisa. Okay. Yes.

Roula (01:07)
The song is Medusa. Yes, three songs, Medusa,

Shadow and Puppet.

So I'm gonna put them in show notes. This brings me to the episode.

Rosie (01:18)
Yes, you better.

Get on with it. Yeah, let's hear it.

Roula (01:34)
Okay, so there have been a lot of conversation in my social circle why less and less people want to have children. We did an episode on this topic.

Rosie (01:43)
Mm.

Episode 24. It was one of our most popular episodes, so go back and listen to it if you haven't. ⁓

Roula (01:48)
Episode 24

Yes, do you want to have children? That's the episode. And I feel I want to revisit it because I have new information from the people around me as why we want less and less children.

Rosie (02:06)
Okay.

Roula (02:08)
I don't know how you stand today on this topic. Did you change your mind? Do want to have children?

Rosie (02:14)
No, I don't want to have children. And I think, I'm pretty sure we covered this in the last episode. I don't even remember. We should have really listened to this, shouldn't we? But I used to think I wanted children. And I remember saying to someone, like, if I don't have kids, I'm going to be devastated. That was the word I used, devastated. And now...

Roula (02:17)
Can you remind me why not?

Rosie (02:42)
you know what, I think I'm perfectly happy just focusing on me. I don't think I have the capacity or perhaps even the ability to have a child. Ability as in to look after a child. So yeah, I don't want kids because it's hard enough looking after myself and I'm okay with that. But that's been a big shift for me. Definitely. I always thought I wanted kids and now I'm...

you know, 33 turning 34 next month. And yeah, I don't think kids are going to be on the horizon, but I'm okay with that.

Roula (03:20)
Yes. Yes. You know, the thing is, it's not that we don't want, as a woman I'm speaking, and I'm sure there are men who also don't want children. It's not that we don't want to have children because we're just thinking of ourselves. We don't want to have children because there is no supporting system whatsoever to

to have children and live our life. The support systems we have, they cost money, which is daycare. We live far from our families. It's not easy to just call our parents and we don't all have families to help us. And also we became so individualistic that

Rosie (04:00)
Yeah.

Roula (04:16)
When we have a child and I'm speaking from my own experience, we want to raise them our way or the highway. We don't want input from others. We don't want opinion from others because we know what we're doing. And guess what? We fucking don't know what we're doing. It's learning on the job. And this is why I think people don't want to have children because they're so scared of losing.

Rosie (04:32)
Yeah

Mmm.

Roula (04:45)
their identity, their life, their dreams, their hopes. And it is true. It happens.

Rosie (04:51)
Yeah, that's true.

Because I very much see becoming a parent, it's like saying goodbye to my life as it is now. That's how I see it. And that is terrifying and actually that's not a compromise I want to make. And I do look back and wonder, was my desire to have children my own or was it because that's what society...

us think we need to do. We're surrounded by it. We see it happening. It's in movies. It's in TV shows. Did I actually want kids? I don't know.

Roula (05:27)
But the less which I realized from the conversations we had recently, we must have kids. If we want humanity to continue and we want to have a better life for all generations, we must have kids. We will be extinguished if we don't have kids. Who will look after the last generation? You say maybe that's not bad.

Rosie (05:48)
Maybe that's not a bad thing. my God. Yeah.

That's, that's rather dystopic though, isn't it? Who's going to look after the last generation? Like if, if no one else has kids. Yeah. And it's almost like, I think we're talking about careers recently and

we were saying not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur and we need people to do all the different jobs. And I guess it's similar when it comes to parenting and having children. If we want society to continue, we do need people to have children. So not everybody has to want it, but there is definitely a place for it. I don't think it's good or bad to want kids or not want kids. There shouldn't be any shame around it.

Roula (06:37)
True. I'm also changing my thoughts and my beliefs because I'm seeing it now differently. I really feel strongly that we have to have a support system that supports mothers so much that it encourages them to want to have children. And I'm saying in the Netherlands when we have a baby, so the mom has three months leave, the father have two days. Why?

Rosie (06:56)
Fuck.

Mmm.

Roula (07:06)
It's nice to have three months for the mom, three months for the dad. Of course, some countries they have a whole year for both parents and it's paid. I think in Denmark, if you want to get pregnant, go to Denmark. ⁓ We need a support system. We need to good quality care that is not expensive.

Rosie (07:07)
here.

Yeah.

Wow, one year. Woohoo, wow.

Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's, it is scary. think about parenting. I think about how isolating it's going to be, how difficult it's going to be, the self-doubt I'm going to be riddled with, my lack of free time, the overwhelming responsibility I have for another human. All these negative things are what comes to mind for me. So why on earth would I want children? Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (07:51)
these negative things will happen for sure.

Rosie (07:58)
So what makes it worth it? my god. I do wonder.

Roula (08:02)
The support,

I think the support. I'm so like in these days, I feel I want to build some footprint on how to create support for women and men to do want to have children. And I don't have it figured out how the support will be. But if I think of myself when I had my first child,

I had no support at all. It was me and this baby, 24-7, and my ex, but he was working, so he was the breadwinner. And I was depressed because I wasn't contributing to my future. And then, of course, people argue, but your future is your child. And I really feel we need to separate the mother identity from the woman identity.

Rosie (08:39)
Mmm.

⁓

fucking hell we do. I remember recording an episode on my podcast about this. You're more than just a mum. I'm gonna have to put it in the description because as someone who's not a mum, I'm like, my God, yeah. Your identity when you have children is so tied up in being a parent. It's like you're not who you were anymore. But of course you are.

Roula (09:21)
Yeah.

Rosie (09:22)
Okay, I'm curious, I'm curious. What made you decide to have children?

Roula (09:29)
societal expectations. ⁓

Rosie (09:31)
Yeah, that's coming from you. Okay, what about Liam? Because there's a big age gap, right? I feel like you were probably a bit more fierce and independent and free thinking by then.

Roula (09:47)
I was 41?

Rosie (09:49)
Yeah, bucking the trend, right?

Roula (09:50)
Which means,

yes, I was 41 and I built some kind of career. I had practiced with my two children.

I knew how I'm gonna do things differently.

So to answer your question is that some women have instinct, are born with this instinct, motherhood feeling and being a mother really defined who they are. The majority are not, and I'm saying the majority not because I read any statistic, I'm saying the majority because from all the women that are in my life, I can say 20 % wanted to be a mother.

Rosie (10:35)
It's an observation. Wow.

Roula (10:38)
So yes, exact observation from the conversation I have with all the women in my life. And I have many of them.

Rosie (10:42)
So, okay.

So you became a parent and on reflection you go, yeah, it was from societal expectations. But then when you had Liam, which was what? It was over 10 years later, was it? I'm trying to think the gap.

Roula (10:57)
Almost 12.

Rosie (11:00)
Yeah, right, so you'd grown up, you're what, 41 I think you said? So it sounds like it was much more intentional. You kind of knew what you would be in for and you were at a different life stage. So even though you started parenthood because of societal expectations, you realized how hard it was and there's no support, what on earth made you go, yep, I want one now. I want another one, sign me up.

Roula (11:01)
See you next time.

Yes.

Rosie (11:29)
You sound crazy.

Roula (11:30)
True,

yes. ⁓ no, no, I'm thinking. Okay, I don't want this to come ⁓ wrong because I love my kids and I'm so happy to have them.

Rosie (11:41)
Yeah, yeah.

Roula (11:44)
I did also have them because this is what the father wanted. We are two in this marriage and one has a very strong desire of having children. I have no idea if I want to have children or not. I didn't take the time and this was with my children, my two daughters. With my son, because I knew what to expect and I knew what's waiting for me.

Rosie (11:48)
Mmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Roula (12:11)
to ask what I want, I knew how to ask from my husband what I want to make me want to have a child.

Rosie (12:16)
you

Roula (12:21)
and agreed on how we see it raising this child, I felt encouraged to have a third child because he wants it also very badly.

Rosie (12:32)
Right, yep. Yeah.

Roula (12:34)
If I didn't

have, and this some people don't talk about it. If I didn't have a child with my husband, maybe he would have not stayed with me.

Rosie (12:37)
Hmm.

True, yeah.

Roula (12:46)
So did I have a

child just to keep him with me? It could be. I cannot say yes or no. It's part of it. Yes, I love him and I want to give him this gift of life. And it was on my own terms.

Rosie (12:51)
part of it, right? Maybe, yeah, yeah, it's complex.

Mm.

Yes, you could say, this is what I need from you. Wow. Well, thank you. Thank you for answering that. That was really interesting, actually. Yeah, wow. Fascinating. What was our question at the beginning?

Roula (13:20)
Do you want to have children?

Rosie (13:22)
do you want to have kids? Or do you want any more kids, Roula

Roula (13:24)
I'll check it.

Well, no, I'm in my 50s. But I don't want to be a grandma yet.

Rosie (13:27)
So?

Okay, yet.

Roula (13:34)
I have

no control over it, but I hope that my daughters will wait as long as they can to build themselves their life, et cetera, because I am not ready to be a grandma. And maybe this is for another episode. What does it mean to be a grandparent?

Rosie (13:36)
No.

It's a little bit selfish of you.

God, yeah, that's a whole identity shift I feel. Fascinating. Let us know though listeners, do you want to have kids? ⁓ Yeah, I think it's a complex issue and we just need to chill out a little bit when we're talking about it. I know I sometimes...

Roula (13:57)
Yeah.

We have to be open.

Rosie (14:12)
We do, I'll sometimes internally judge people I see online who have like huge family, 12 kids. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, I do judge them in my head, but who am I to judge? These kids look happy, they're looked after, the family looks happy, they're loved. Why the hell, why do I care? It's because I could not think of anything worse.

Roula (14:32)
feel nauseous when I see a pregnant woman.

I feel sick to my core because, ⁓ my goodness, I can't handle this. You know, it's hard. ⁓ I do want to leave the listeners with an unsolicited advice.

Rosie (14:50)
Okay, yes.

Roula (14:52)
Children don't save marriages. Children don't make a marriage happier. Children do not complete a marriage because what's complete, save and make a marriage happier is honest conversation about all these topics and each one lay on the table their cards open of what they want, how they want it, and how in the future it would look like, and then decide to have a child or not.

It's so critical to really be honest with ourselves before we do it. This is the biggest thing that I've learned.

Rosie (15:30)
Yes, be honest.

Yeah, be honest. Think about it. It's a big decision, right? And I know it can happen unexpectedly, but if you are thinking about having a child, it's not going to be, yep, this is the one thing that's gonna save our marriage, like you just said. Bullshit.

Roula (15:51)
You said it can happen unexpectedly and our episodes are getting bit longer. Can I share something that you might hate me for saying it?

Rosie (15:59)
Go on, yep.

Roula (16:01)
As a woman?

I will not allow myself to say I got pregnant by mistake. Where the fuck was my mind?

But that's me. I will not allow myself to make this mistake. Yes, I had a child because of societal expectations and I was under this pressure, but I planned it. And all my life I knew that I will not make this mistake and I will take all the necessary measures not to make this mistake. And that's my message to my daughters.

Rosie (16:41)
That's your message. Okay. All right. I have opinions here, but I think I need to put a pin in it. So let us know your thoughts, everybody. We have just had a very rambly whatever conversation, but it's a big topic. Kids, we need them. We don't all have to have them though.

Roula (17:02)
Right. Well, thank you. I hope you listen to us again after this one.

Rosie (17:05)
Fuck.