The Rosie and Roula Show

205: Why We Stop Trying to Change People And Why It’s Liberating

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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We all have moments when other people’s behavior drives us up the wall — from littering to thoughtlessness to the never-ending “why would anyone DO that?” spiral. But at some point, we realize the truth: we cannot change people. In this episode, we explore why accepting this is actually freeing — and how to protect your peace while still caring about the world around you.

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In this episode, we dive into the emotional exhaustion of trying to change people — and why letting go brings real peace. We explore everyday triggers (like public messes, inconsiderate behavior, and small frustrations) and zoom out to the deeper lesson of accepting what we can’t control.

Learn how to:

Stop wasting energy on other people’s behavior

Build boundaries without becoming numb

Stay hopeful about humanity without trying to “fix” everyone

Redirect frustration into meaningful action instead of resentment

Protect your own mental and emotional well-being

This liberating mindset shift is for anyone who feels drained, frustrated, or overwhelmed by the world around them.

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Rosie (00:01) It'll be on my phone. Should we do that? Yeah. Roula (00:04) Rosie, while you're looking for the question from the listener, we have a mood switch. Two days ago, we were recording our episode number 200 and I was feeling like a wreck. And today, it's like two days later, I'm feeling really, really good and strong. my God, one day later. And the roles switched. Today, you're feeling tired. And we are committed to record this episode because it make us, it bring us some joy. And it's healing. Rosie (00:26) day later. It's one day later. Yes. Yeah. It lifts, yeah, it's going to lift our mood. It is healing. It is. Where is this listener's message? Let me, I'm, see, I'm not organized today, but we're going to get there because Barb, who was a long time listener of the podcast, messaged me on TikTok with a question. So there's lots of ways you can reach us listeners. It's just me getting organised. Here we go. So Barb says, Hi Rosie, I have a question for the Rosie and Ruler Show. This is something that I have noticed and it makes me think. When do we get to the age where we just don't care anymore? A sense of apathy. I see this every day. Cigarettes chucked out the window, rubbish thrown on the floor, lack of respect for others. I'm trying to work out my audio for later episodes to comment, but for now, I thought I would write this to you. Thank you and have a great day. Roula (01:51) This is a very good question. Rosie (01:54) Mmm. Yeah. Do you want to start, ruler? ⁓ Yeah, thank you. Yes. I never would have come up with this question. Roula (02:03) I know. At what age? That's very interesting because we're two different ages with two different perspectives and I love that. I think when I turned 50, a shift happened in me. It means I started accepting that not everyone lives by my values. Rosie (02:32) Yep. Roula (02:33) I started accepting there are bad people, there are good people. Because in the past I was raised and taught that we have to see the good in people all the time. And with age I realized some people are just bad, just like the person in front of me in the car who just throw away their food bag outside of the window. Rosie (02:47) you Roula (02:59) I don't know, I cannot see this person in the car and I could say, ⁓ people, their parents didn't raise you or you're such a bad person throwing the bag out of the car and I want to raise this person, tell them what's the right thing to do. Rosie (03:09) you ⁓ want to raise them. Yeah. Roula (03:18) And then with age, I realized some people are just a lost cause. Rosie (03:25) It's kind of really depressing. But I think that's really valid. It is valid because we are raised. Well, I don't think everybody, but yeah, I was probably raised to have compassion. You know, if someone's being a dickhead on the road, we don't know what's happening. Maybe they're racing to the hospital, the child's sick. That was something I was sort of taught to think of. But really, you're saying maybe they're just an asshole. Roula (03:29) No! Yes, to answer Barb, the age doesn't have to do also a lot with it. This is why, for example, in the Netherlands, there is dog shit everywhere. Because almost each house has a dog or two. And they walk the dogs, they don't take little bags with them to clean the shit. Rosie (04:10) No. Roula (04:21) Sometimes you can't walk and look in front of you. You have to walk and just look on the ground so you don't step into dog shit. But the city hall, what you call it, the mayor and his people decided to fine these people because if they don't get fined and feel the pain, they will not make the change. And the change is obligatory. So it's not willingly they're making the change. And this also shows us Rosie (04:27) you you Roula (04:50) why some kind of regulations are needed because people are people. We don't have wars, we don't have rage, we don't have crazy shit happen since the beginning of humanity because you can make people good people. There are good, there are bad and those not cleaning their dog shit, they just don't care and they need to be fined so they get their dog shit. Rosie (05:14) I feel like we're straying from the question, but I just have to say I'm not convinced that finding people would solve the issue. I see this knee-jerk reactions like this happening in governments all over the world and I go, you're not solving the problem. Roula (05:30) In a way you are, because you can't change people. This answered Bart's question. Because you can't change people, so there is no point to get upset over it every time. Rosie (05:32) Are you though? Yeah but you're not gonna change that if- No, the question was, when do we get to the age where we just don't care? For you it was 50. For you it was 50. Roula (05:46) Yeah, exactly. When she realizes she cannot change, she has no power to changing these people acting. Rosie (05:54) So you don't think it's to do with age, it's more just a realisation. Roula (05:59) Yes, with age because then you... something naturally happen when you start giving a little less of fun. And the second thing for Barb is that she needs to understand she has no control over how people are behaving. Rosie (06:24) It's so hard though, isn't it? It's hard watching people do shitty things. And I think age does play a role, but I also feel like it's a season. Different seasons in my life, I don't give a shit. And I probably am an asshole and a bad person. But it's not like... I don't know, there's this general school of thought that as you get older, you get grumpier and crankier and more cynical. Roula (06:53) No! Maybe you get wiser. You don't get grumpy or cynical. You get wiser. You choose your battles. I'm not letting you speak. Rosie (06:56) Right! Well, that... No, well, I'm not saying I agree with that notion, but that's something that seems to be perpetuated. So yeah, I'm not so sure it is an age thing. I think it's a... It's a mindset thing. But I have to say, if we see people doing things like they just don't care about the environment or other people, I don't know, maybe they are going through a shitty time. Roula (07:28) It's not easy to tell this. So when you see someone throwing a paper or chewing gum or I don't know, something on the street, it's not easy to go and tell them pick it up because I'm scared that people get aggressive and then I have to go into or I'm going to go into a conversation because the fact they are so negligent to throw something on the street tells me I'm not safe around these people. Rosie (07:34) Yeah. Roula (07:57) Can you imagine how small this action is? Makes me feel unsafe. Rosie (07:59) yeah, I wouldn't be doing it. But also, if we go back to what you said before, you can't change people, so why would we say something? But then, you know, we encourage people to speak up, so I don't know, that's a hard one. Roula (08:06) No! I always say, and well, this is something my husband reminded me of it two days ago when I was arguing with him, I always say, it's not the things you say that makes people want to hear it or leave it. It's how we say it. I'm guilty of it. I said it wrong. So when I want to speak up and make someone attend to their shitty behavior, Rosie (08:33) you Mm. Roula (08:42) I have to be in a place where I'm choosing the right words first to have their attention. Second, not to have an argument. And can I do this every time with strangers? no. Rosie (08:57) No, no, sometimes you just zip it. Yeah, I don't know. How old do you, what's the age where you stop giving a shit? I think there's different versions of not giving a shit. Not giving a shit as in I am my person and I am not living by other people's rules. I think that's a good kind of not giving a shit. Like yeah, this is my life, thank you, piss off. But then there's not giving a shit where it... would you describe it Rula? Do you know what I mean? It's Roula (09:25) where you want to correct people's behavior and influence them. Rosie (09:31) But how do we describe that behaviour of the people who are doing the yucky behaviour? Roula (09:37) In Dutch we say asociaal, which means they're anti-social. Rosie (09:42) Antisocial. Hmm. That's an interesting question. Some people really don't seem to give a shit. No, yeah, I think there's no age, also I can't help but go, gosh, there must be shit going on for these people. Not excusing the behavior, can I just say? But, ⁓ I'm gonna take a... Roula (09:51) There is no age to stop giving a shit. There is no. Rosie (10:09) a page out of your book though, maybe more often I need to go, they're just a bad yucky person. Because it can take so much of my energy sometimes, someone's done something that hurts me or I don't agree with and I'm too busy trying to go, they might be going through something like just, know, fuck that, they're being an asshole. ⁓ Roula (10:29) This bring me, I remember that I did something one time. I was looking outside of my window. I was in my bedroom looking outside of my window and there's this girl walking two big dogs. They both did a shit in front on like on the other side where we live. It's grass, but children, play there and we step on it to get into our car. So we do walk on this grass and she kept walking. Rosie (10:36) Yeah. Yeah Roula (10:59) I ran like a supersonic person, get two plastic bags. I ran outside to her and I told her, it looks like you don't have bags to clean the dog's shit. Here, these are two bags. Can you please clean these dog's shits? She didn't say a word. She took the bags, she cleaned the dog's shit. And because I lived in a place where... Rosie (11:08) They can't be a fucking dog shit. Roula (11:25) lot of people, there's nature, so a of people game walking their dogs. I've never seen her walking her dogs in this place anymore, ever. Rosie (11:29) Yeah. Hahaha You dealt with that though was really nice. You weren't like, pick up your dog shit, I walk through here every day, blah, blah, blah. You're like, ⁓ I see you don't have bags, here you go. Yes. Roula (11:41) I gave her the tools. I gave her the tools so she doesn't tell me I don't have a bag. Rosie (11:48) And the way you spoke just assumed she would do the right thing. It's like, I see you don't have bags. Here you go, could you go, you know, pick it up? like what she meant to say to that? Roula (11:56) Yeah. She wasn't happy. She looked at me like, what the fuck? But she did it because she knew she's wrong. Rosie (12:00) Yeah. I'm glad. Good on you. Yeah. Well, Barb, thank you for the question. Don't know if we answered it, but we had a good little chat. So thank you for making our minds work. For once, we didn't have to come up with a question. Woohoo! Roula (12:17) Yeah, thanks Barb. Bye! Thank you, bye! Rosie (12:22) Bye.