The Rosie and Roula Show

159: We Really Don't Care That You Eat Organic (Here's Why)

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

Share episode

We went in on the “organic” debate—and let’s just say, it’s not as simple as apples vs apples.

From Roula’s frustration at organic food being treated like a status symbol, to Rosie’s story about people refusing to eat her mum’s cooking because it wasn’t organic, we unpack the ethics, the marketing spin, and the reality of what’s actually on our plates.

We also ask the uncomfortable question: if organic is really better for our health, why is it only accessible to people who can afford it?

Topics covered:

  • Why organic food has become a status symbol
  • The real economics behind why organic costs more
  • How free-range labels aren’t always what they seem
  • Roula’s memories of food scarcity and survival
  • Why accessibility and privilege matter more than labels

Do you think organic food is genuinely better, or just smart marketing?

Here's a link to the documentary Rosie mentioned:

Supersize Me 2: Holy Chicken!

--------------------

--------------------

--------------------

Roula (00:00)
Okay, I think I have a question for you. Yeah?

Rosie (00:03)
Good, because I was gonna say,

I don't know what to talk about. So perfect.

Roula (00:21)
So, Rosie, do you think buying organic food is really, really the best thing compared to just non-organic food? And where is this coming from?

Rosie (00:36)
Mmm.

Wow. Hmm.

I I'm going to start with a little story. I saw a video on.

I it was TikTok or Facebook and it was a farmer who doesn't use any pesticides or any of that stuff. was organic. But he couldn't market his apples as organic because he didn't pay the money to be certified as organic. So he wasn't allowed to use that word.

And I just thought, wow, I think he was in the UK. I can't remember. And I just thought, oh my God. So part of it is a moneymaking scheme, which, okay, yeah, we're a capitalist society and yes, but also it just goes to show, a little bit gimmicky. I don't actually know what the strict requirements are. I think.

Roula (01:11)
⁓

Rosie (01:40)
I like the concept of being able to buy fruit and veggies that...

The neighbours just pulled in his car and playing. Can you hear the music?

Roula (01:52)
but when he was pulling in, yeah.

Rosie (01:54)
He's playing numb. That's Linkin Park, yeah.

Anyway,

Roula (02:00)
so now i can feel you there i'll become so

Rosie (02:07)
so distracted, but I like the concept of being able to get organic fruit and veg because

the more you read about the chemicals and pesticides and all the things that are used on our fruit and veg, it's like, wow.

But do I buy organic? No. And you know why? Because it is so much more expensive.

Roula (02:30)
Why?

Rosie (02:34)
I don't care enough to...

find it in my budget to pay that extra money. I just can't justify it. It's not important enough to me. That's truth. That's the bottom line.

it the same in the Netherlands? Like is organic food more expensive?

Roula (02:56)
It's so expensive it feels like it becomes the status of its existence. I only buy organic.

Rosie (03:01)
⁓ totally, totally. I agree.

totally used as a status thing. I agree.

Roula (03:08)
For someone who's probably barely able, probably going like on to the food, how do you call it? Not really. not even for a woman not able to buy months period products. Yeah. So this is this, okay. I don't know guys, you know, in our conversations, we go twist and turn because it's very natural.

Rosie (03:24)
Period products. Yeah? Yeah.

Roula (03:38)
Can you imagine we spend more money to buy organic and we still pay for our menstrual pads, which is more necessary for our existence than eating an organic apple.

Rosie (03:55)
Sorry.

Roula (03:58)
It sounds like I'm bashing organic now. I'm not bashing organic. if organic is so good for our health, why only those who can afford it can eat good things for their health?

Rosie (04:08)
And why isn't it just a blanket thing? All food has to be organic now. Why not? If it's so good for us, why then has it not become legislated that you can't use these harmful chemicals anymore? Is it really that good?

Roula (04:26)
Yeah, well,

I read that to have organic products, does cost more labor work.

Rosie (04:34)
Okay, okay. So maybe there's a bit of justification there.

Roula (04:35)
And

there is justification, but the biggest reason why the price is high is because the demand is low.

So the price is not high because to grow organic, you're spending more or you're making, yes, you're making more effort, et cetera. But it's not at the comparison that the price so much higher should be from non-organic.

Rosie (05:03)
You know what though, I'm not sure from an economics perspective and the little bit I remember from my MBA, if demand is low, you usually lower the price.

Roula (05:16)
not for organic or is it demand? no, you're right. my goodness. I mixed it up. Yes. The demand is high and the production is low.

Rosie (05:25)
Yeah, there you go. Yeah. That makes more sense now. Knew I took that subject for a reason. Yeah. And maybe it's harder for the farmers to produce at scale as well.

Roula (05:27)
So this is why the price is high.

Yeah, you're right. And it's

100%. That's is true.

This is true. And I don't think I'm like, we know how to solve it, whatever. It just for me, it feels so unethical that those who can afford it, they eat better food than those who cannot afford it. And this just fucking break my heart.

Rosie (05:48)
Mm.

Wow, yeah. Yeah?

Roula (06:01)
So when I'm standing to buy apples and choose between organic or not organic, I just don't have, I feel guilty to buy organic. I can buy non-organic and give one extra bag of non-organic to the food place, food bank, for another family rather than.

Rosie (06:11)
Yeah. Wow.

The food bank. Mmm.

Wow.

Roula (06:29)
buy organic and show off like I only eat organic. I'm so healthy.

Rosie (06:33)
You know, I'd never thought of it

in this way in terms of accessibility, but you're so right. It almost becomes a human rights issue.

Roula (06:41)
Yes,

it's a trend, it's marketing trend targeting the those I don't want to say rich because they're not necessarily rich who's buying organic, the middle class and the rich and the status of I only eat organic. And I heard this from so many people. Tell me, tell me.

Rosie (06:45)
are totally.

Middle class.

I remember when it started becoming a thing. Yeah, I remember.

And this is just my experience in Australia. It would have been the early 2000s that I remember family friends, there are a couple in particular who would only buy organic. And they would ask when they came over, like if mum served up some fruit or chicken, was it organic?

And mum was there, no, like we didn't buy organic. ⁓ At that particular time, we might've been on a tight budget, but also it wasn't really a priority. Like mum and dad couldn't justify that extra cost, which I totally get. But these people were like, no, only eating organic.

Roula (07:42)
So they wouldn't eat with you?

Rosie (07:45)
⁓ some things they wouldn't eat, I remember. And then they sort of relaxed on that over time. But initially, yeah, it's this status thing. I only eat organic. Are you serving organic food? And the food is still yummy.

Roula (07:50)
Mm-mm-mm. Yeah. They realized, Rosie, in your house they will starve because they won't get anything organic.

know, there are things we can do. And this is my personal opinion. We don't have to eat meat every day. If we eat a piece of meat, we have to know what kind of butcher we're using. Are the animals treated well? Especially with chicken, know, chicken are suffering. They're being tortured just for us to eat their meat. So reduce our our meat food.

Rosie (08:09)
Of course. Right.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Roula (08:30)
by having quality where animals were treated well without necessarily having it to be organic. And this is still a bit affordable because even if you want to see grass-fed cows or chickens who were playing outside before they killed them, this is also expensive. So we have ranges.

Rosie (08:43)
Right, yeah.

Right, right, yeah.

Hmm. I do try to buy free range.

That's what we call it here. Free range. ⁓ especially for chickens, like you said, where they have space to move around. But again, it's marketing. There's a documentary I watched a couple of years ago. I can't remember the name of it. I'll put it in the description. I'll go back and look it up. I think it was the same guy who did the Super Size Me documentary. I don't know if you've heard of that. He had McDonald's.

Roula (08:59)
Yep, yep, yep.

Rosie (09:20)
every day for every meal. I can't remember for how long and he just sort of documented it and the impact on his health. Well, he started a fast food chain, a chicken one.

kind of exposing what a rort this free range thing is. So in the queue in the fast food restaurant, there was, I think he had like a cage or a little barrier that showed how much space was actually required per hen for it to be classified as free range. And it wasn't a lot. You'd look at it and go wow, that's cruel. And also some of them.

Roula (09:56)
⁓ very little.

Rosie (10:00)
Free range doesn't mean they have to be outside. They could be inside with no sunlight. That's horrible. And I just went, wow, we think we're doing this good thing by buying free range. And yeah, they're better conditions than, ⁓ not free range, but are they really?

Roula (10:05)
Mmm. ⁓

Rosie (10:20)
Are they humane?

Possibly not.

Roula (10:23)
Yes.

Food chain is so toxic and killing us. We want to eat so much and we want to buy food so much. ⁓ yes, the bottom line in this episode, feel what my take on it is that I hope we stop making organic as a status of existence who we are and just accept that. Come on.

Rosie (10:32)
I love food, yeah.

Yeah, fuck off. ⁓

Roula (10:55)
When I grew up, we had food crisis. The UNICEF used to stand for ask food and we would go and stay in line to get food because it was time for.

Rosie (11:00)
you

Yeah.

Yeah, would you not get food

because it's not organic?

Roula (11:09)
no one talked about organic back then and we survived. lived from whatever food we ate. It's just now talking, saying that eating organic, will live healthier, don't have cancer, allergy, et cetera. This for my feeling, and I didn't do fact check and I'm not going to do fact check because I believe what I believe at the moment. It's a marketing designed.

Rosie (11:11)
No, it's not a priority. Right. Yeah.

Right. Okay.

Roula (11:37)
to sell.

Rosie (11:39)
Totally. think it's, yes, it's a marketing, it's driven by marketing.

Roula (11:41)
And my dear listener, if you're not

eating organic, it's fine. I hope you cook very well because I might want to try your food. And if someone tells you they only eat organic, just tell them, you know, I really don't care. Just, you know, I don't care what you eat.

Rosie (11:54)
Good for you.

Like if they cared that much, why aren't they growing their own fruit and veg?

Roula (12:03)
Yeah, if you can afford organic, why don't you buy expensive house and have a garden? No, okay, I'm being all for the top.

Rosie (12:07)
Yeah, pay a gardener. We're being very judgy. But yeah, I think we're on the same page in that it is very much

a marketing ploy, but I do also think it's something I would like to be more conscious about where my food comes from and what chemicals or other products are being used on it. And I think the more I learn, the scarier it gets. So I, I choose not to delve into it too much. Like I heard something the other day.

Apples we get in the supermarket, some of them have been in the cold room for up to six months. It's not even fresh.

Roula (12:38)
True.

True.

Rosie (12:42)
crazy.

Roula (12:43)
There is a lot of lot of people to be fed on earth and we want to have all kind of food. But we can't find we can't go to Asia, so I want the fruit coming from Asia to here. Like if I want to eat sushi, I want the fish to be coming from Japan. You know, I'm this kind of person. I'm kidding, guys, that's bullshit. All right, all right.

Rosie (12:47)
Hell yeah. Yeah.

Okay. ⁓ are you? Okay. Roto. So I'm just going, mm.

Roula (13:11)
I sounded serious. These are my acting skills.

Rosie (13:12)
You did, you fooled me.

You definitely fooled me then.

Roula (13:16)
All right. Thank you for listening on this organic episode.

Rosie (13:21)
And let us know,

do you think the whole organic thing is just a marketing ploy? Let us know.

Roula (13:27)
Yes. Bye.

Rosie (13:28)
Bye!