The Rosie and Roula Show

153: Good Girl. Good Boy. Always Nice. Always Polite. But Where Do Their Real Feelings Go?

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

Share episode

In this episode, Rosie and Roula dive deep into parenting, people pleasing, and the lifelong journey of authenticity. Inspired by a powerful clip from Dr. Gabor Maté, they unpack how childhood conditioning—like being told to “be a good girl” or “just be nice”—can strip kids of their true selves.

Roula shares real stories about parenting her son and daughters, shifting from rigid rules to more authentic boundaries, and teaching kids that it’s okay to say no. Rosie reflects on how childhood praise shaped her own people-pleasing tendencies, and the two explore how parents can help kids honor their feelings without shame.

If you’ve ever wondered:

  • Am I raising a people pleaser?
  • How do I balance boundaries with compassion?
  • Why is it so hard to be authentic as an adult?

…this conversation is for you.

Keywords: parenting podcast, Gabor Maté parenting, authenticity, people pleasing, gentle parenting, setting boundaries, parenting tips, raising kids, motherhood, fatherhood, family dynamics

--------------------

--------------------

--------------------

Roula (00:01)
Rosie, Rosie, we're back, better connection.

Rosie (00:05)
Yes, here we go. We're trying, I'm trying to hotspot my phone. I have another question. I've been asking all the questions lately.

Roula (00:15)
love it.

Rosie (00:16)
And again, it's to do with parenting. Now, I think I shared this video with you recently. I want to play it again. It's about a minute, but I really want listeners to hear it and you and I to hear it again. And then we're going to talk about it. So you ready? Okay.

So this is... ⁓

⁓ I've forgotten the guy's name. I'll put it in the description. Whatever. Let's listen.

You're good fans, you're gonna frustrate your two-year-old and I don't mean deliberately I just mean when they want a cookie before dinner, you're not gonna give them a cookie You're gonna say no no cookie before dinner if he's a healthy two-year-old they're gonna throw a tantrum Because they're frustrated but then you read Jordan Peters book and he says an angry child should be made to sit by themselves So they come back to normal. It's not normal

for kid to be angry. So the kid gets the message. If I'm going to experience my genuine self, I'm going to lose my attachment. Now guess what the kid's going to give up? The attachment with the authenticity. But only 100 % of the time, it's the authenticity. Because without the attachment, they can't live. But then, authenticity becomes a threat. So the kid becomes afraid of their true selves. Because if I'm being myself, they won't like me. They'll reject me.

That even hurt me. And then of course, the culture rewards you. Oh, you're such a good kid. You're always compliant. You're always so nice. You're always so pleasant. What a pretty little girl, always pretty. And as we praise kids for pleasing us, so the reward is the attachment. And we don't care about the child's inner experience. So then we give ourselves up just in order to be accepted. So it's that simple. And then you grow up and you're 30 or 40 and you're 50 saying,

Who the hell am I anyway? And whose life am I living? And why am I behaving in these ways?

Roula (02:31)
This is a maté, Gabor Maté.

Rosie (02:35)
Yes, that's the

one. Thank you. Yes. Yes.

Roula (02:39)
He's amazing. Yes, I really love how good he brings his message.

Rosie (02:41)
Whoa.

He's been coming up a lot lately cause I'm on YouTube a lot. He's been coming up a lot lately on my feed and every video of his I see, I'm just, my jaw drops. I watched this clip and I just went, Whoa.

that like it just resonated so deeply and I had never thought of it like that before. It really did blow my mind and I thought, know who's going to get this? Roula And that's why I sent it to you.

Roula (03:19)
Tell me, why did it resonate so much with you?

Rosie (03:25)
well this aspect of pleasing people and losing your authentic self. I went, shit, yes. We are told, good girl, good boy, well done, so proud of you.

when we do what the adults want us to do.

And I think this is difficult to talk about because obviously...

Our children need to learn things and you know, a parent has a role to play there, but my gosh, the parent holds so much power and that's kind of, it just made me go, wow, maybe this is where some of my people pleasing tendencies come from. fact, not maybe, absolutely. And that's not me. I want to make clear.

saying my parents were shit. No, it's just, whoa, yeah, I was learning from a young age. It's both from parents, it's from teachers, from other adults. Wow. We are conditioned from a very young age.

Roula (04:40)
Please others, to be kind even, we know they going to hurt us.

Rosie (04:42)
Yeah.

Yes. ⁓ yeah. Why can't I be angry? Why can't I have my tantrum? Actually, these are my feelings. Why not help me work through these feelings?

Sit down, shut up. okay. You be quiet. I'm so proud of you, darling. Well done. okay. Then you get things you want. They give you attention.

If you just shut up, push down how you're feeling, push down your authentic self.

Roula (05:30)
I am imagining myself in the supermarket and there's a mom with a two-year-old and this two-year-old is having tantrum, screaming, shouting, laying on the floor, doesn't want to cooperate. And I see this mom trying to reason but not to break her words because she said no, we're not buying candies today. We have enough candies at home.

And I imagine myself walking to this woman and telling her, here's a folding chair, sit down, plug in a podcast, listen to it, and let your child cry it out on the floor.

listen to music, listen to a book. Just have a folding chair, sit, take a moment, let them cry it out. I wish someone told me this when I was raising my children.

Rosie (06:29)
Yeah.

Roula (06:31)
⁓ You know what he started with? What if your child want the cookie or I can't remember exactly, you know before dinner? My son eats chips crackers. I don't know what you call it snacks before dinner, but we agree he eats a little bit just to satisfy his desire to eat these crackers, but not to take away his hunger for dinner.

Rosie (06:40)
Yes, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Roula (07:01)
And sometimes he asked me if he can have this dessert before dinner. I look at the time. Yeah, I mean, I need another 40 minutes to finish dinner. You can have your small dessert.

Rosie (07:12)
Mmm.

Roula (07:15)
Was I like this with my daughters? God forbid I would be angry, going crazy. Dessert before dinner? Are you out of your mind? First, you have to eat good, you have to eat your vegetable, and if you didn't eat all your vegetables, you're not getting dessert. I was the mom who wants to be so strict to these rules. Just because I thought parenting is dessert after dinner.

Rosie (07:20)
Yeah

Mmm.

Yeah.

That's the way it is.

Roula (07:43)
It took me

years and years to realize, fuck it. He's eating good anyway. He's eating dinner. He's eating good. So if he wants to have a little bit of something yummy before dinner, why am I making such a big deal of it? And you know, also, who from us didn't want to greet an uncle because he's mean and your parents telling you.

Rosie (07:57)
Why not?

Roula (08:11)
You go and say hi to your uncle, that's so rude to come in and... Yeah?

Rosie (08:13)
I've had that happen to me.

What's your thoughts on that?

Roula (08:20)
And I don't know if they do this with boys like they do this with girls. They do this with boys, but not to this extent, I think, because boys have the excuse, ⁓ boys, they're busy boys. are boys. They can't concentrate. But girls, they have to say proper hi and be, you know, sit properly and don't don't talk very loud. But boys are boys. This is not true in these days because also boys have a lot of pressure to.

to listen, to make eye contact, you know, to not make noise. That's so hard. ⁓ And yes, I can see when he says about authenticity. I'm trying to think here, how did I contribute and not helping my daughters bring out their authenticity? And I can give thousands and thousands of examples, but I'm not going to do this here. I'll do it at my therapist.

Rosie (08:51)
Hmm.

Yeah, good idea.

I don't want this to turn into a guilt trip for parents at all. I think it's a moment of reflection, both for me, you know, looking back on how I was raised or for you as a mother and maybe how you were raised as well. And it's like, wow, it's just acknowledging, wow, yeah, my actions can have a huge impact on my child and how they engage with the world, how they deal with things and how they.

how they are as an adult, not just as a child.

Roula (09:55)
We want to stop people pleasing and we want to stop, start putting clear boundaries. And we only can do, we are not raised like this. That's why we're struggling now. We're learning now how to put boundaries and stop people pleasing.

Rosie (10:04)
Yeah. Yes, clear boundaries.

Yeah.

Okay. So what do you think if we go to this example that was given in that video of the child wanting cookies before dinner?

What could be an alternative way of dealing with that that would allow the child to feel their feelings, but also the parent has put a boundary in place. No, you can't have a cookie before dinner.

Roula (10:36)
Wow, I don't know. I don't know at all. Every child is different and I really cannot give advice on this. Every child is different. I can agree with my child. If you have half a cookie, then you need to eat your plate. He says yes, and we're done. He does it. Other child, if they eat half a cookie, even when they had an agreement with their parents, they will not eat dinner. Each child is so different. The only thing, Rosie, that I can...

Rosie (10:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (11:06)
imagine is we have to choose our battles. If our kids want to cook it before dinner and this is stressing us out, then we have to find an alternative. Maybe give them dinner at lunchtime rather in the evening and then in the evening give them a sandwich that is easy to eat and not much fuss. ⁓ I don't know. We have to be creative at parents and stop worrying. Yeah.

Rosie (11:11)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah, we don't have to do things a set way, do we? Just

because you were raised in this way or just because society says, no, you can't have dessert before dinner. You have to do it this way. whoa, Why?

Roula (11:44)
Yeah, this is so overrated. Well,

OK, and in this in this conversation two days ago, I actually gave a pep talk and trained my son to be rude. I want him not to be nice.

Rosie (11:51)
Mm-mm.

Wow.

Roula (12:04)
So here's the story. Okay, for the context, my son is 10 years old.

He was in love with a girl from his class and asked her if she wants to come over and play and he said with you I will never play. Very condescending. His feelings were hurt for like two days and then summer vacation happened he forgotten about that. Two days ago this girl told her that she's in love with his friend and she wants him to help her get closer to him.

Rosie (12:29)
Mm.

This is making me angry.

Roula (12:42)
So he said, yes, I'll help you. And he said to me, so I, my friend, I let her sit next to him and I sat on the other side. And these are his words. He said to me, but mom, do you know how much this hurt my feelings?

Rosie (12:57)
you

Roula (13:01)
Okay, what am I gonna do with this? You know what, Leah? You don't have to help her. She wasn't kind, she wasn't nice to you, and you are not in no obligation to help her. Next time, if she needs more your help, you can tell her, I'd rather stay out of this. Or I helped you the first time, now it's on you. Or I don't know what a 10-year-old would say, but I want you to be strong and don't be kind.

Rosie (13:28)
Mmm.

Roula (13:30)
She wasn't kind to you.

Rosie (13:31)
You know what though? I don't think that's you teaching him to be rude. That's you teaching him to put boundaries in place.

Roula (13:39)
Could be, could be, yes. I'm teaching him like that indeed, indeed. Don't do things that are not aligned with your feelings and your values.

Rosie (13:41)
I think it is, that's not being rude.

Exactly.

Yes. Don't do things that are not aligned with your feelings or your values. I think I need to print that and put it on the wall.

Roula (13:58)
I'll send you magnet.

Rosie (13:58)
On my fridge.

Yeah!

Roula (14:07)
Yeah.

Rosie (14:07)
Yeah,

that's awesome. That kind of like hearing you tell your stories about, know, how you navigate things with your husband and your son and your daughters. go, wow, you are a woman I aspire to be. Like it just is really empowering to hear you talk about these things. You're breaking the norm and you are reflecting on your behaviors and thoughts.

and teaching your kids how to be better people and how to be authentic. Like, Liam, you don't have to be nice and be hurting inside because you don't want to be mean to this girl who was totally rude to you. And you go and fuck that. I don't care if your teacher says you have to be nice to everybody. No, I don't want to help you get closer to my best friend or my friend.

Actually, you really hurt me and that's not something I want to do.

Roula (15:08)
True. You know, I want to add something, not add, but correct something. ⁓ In my conflicts, for example, with my husband, I screw up so much before I realize my lesson.

Rosie (15:21)
Of course.

You mean it doesn't happen straight away? ⁓

Roula (15:27)
No no no ⁓

Rosie (15:34)
Mm.

I don't know that one. Yeah. Okay.

Roula (15:49)
Yeah, hold on, I'm writing the title of the song. Yeah. ⁓

Rosie (15:51)
You're writing the note down. Yeah.

Roula (15:57)
my god, I can't remember the title but few of the lyrics.

Rosie (16:01)
Okay, yeah, yeah.

Roula (16:04)
You see everything. I think that's the title of the song. You see everything. my God. Please, listeners, listen to Alanis Morissette. You see everything. And if it doesn't speak to you, then yeah, then you're amazing. Contact me. I want you to be my friend.

Rosie (16:21)
If it doesn't speak to you. ⁓

if it doesn't speak to you. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Roula (16:25)
If it doesn't speak to you,

Because we all screw up and do crazy stuff and regret and anyway. Okay, okay. So the what's the takeaway from the episodes,

Rosie (16:31)
Yeah.

What is the takeaway?

know what the takeaway is. think it's just, for me, it was just a, ⁓ it was about learning about myself when I watched that video. went, ⁓ wow. So for me, it's now challenging some of my, ⁓ what do call it? Like, ⁓ not reflexes, you know, when you just instinctively react to something, it's kind of, I want to start unpacking that a bit and go, ⁓ why did I step down and be nice?

to this person when they were an asshole. Actually, why am I doing that? Or whatever the situation is. So for me, I think the takeaway is personal reflection. That's what it is for me, but what about you?

Roula (17:24)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Yeah,

for the moms with children who throw tantrum, take a camping chair with you wherever you go. So you can fold it out, sit down and wait. ⁓ OK, then hold like a small banner, say none of your business. I'm parenting. I'm in a parenting moment.

Rosie (17:37)
That sounds so hard. Can you imagine the judgment from everybody in the shopping center? my God.

I love that. ⁓ gosh, easier said than done though, right?

Roula (17:57)
You

Yeah, yeah. But you know, we have to make it easier by ⁓ going into these ⁓ new ways of thinking and not give a fuck way of thinking. And on this note, I'm going to wrap it up. It's been very long episode. Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for listening. We love you. Bye.

Rosie (18:17)
Okay. It has. It's a good.