The Rosie and Roula Show

146: Kindness or Control? Why Kindness Might Not Be What You Think

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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Not everything that looks like kindness is kindness. In this episode of The Rosie and Roula Show, we debate whether a husband’s birthday “gift” is generous or just lazy, and celebrate a mum who set a bold boundary that turned out to be the most thoughtful move of all.

We explore how kindness gets confused with people pleasing, how boundaries can actually strengthen relationships, and why gifts sometimes say more about the giver than the receiver.

💬 Share your thoughts - do you think boundaries are a form of kindness?


Related Episodes

130: What Makes a Good Person, And Why "They've Got A Good Heart" Isn't Enough


🔑 kindness vs control, setting boundaries, people pleasing, gift giving mistakes, parenting boundaries, kindness in relationships, emotional intelligence, how to say no kindly, parenting podcasts, mindful living

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Rosie (00:00)
I am sitting on the floor at the moment because everything's in chaos. I need to put my computer on silent.

Roula (00:00)
Yes.

You can see. Yeah, me too.

My I have to put mine too.

Rosie (00:24)
But what are we talking about, Rulong?

Roula (00:25)
Wow.

Yes, where's my... ⁓ I want to say where's my phone, but it's here and my notes are on it. Not recording from my phone.

You're drinking a jug of something red. What is that?

Rosie (00:39)
I am.

This is sugar-free cordial. Raspberry. Cordial. Like,

Roula (00:43)
Did I say what?

Rosie (00:48)
The flavouring that you put in water, what do you call it?

Roula (00:52)
Nothing. I don't have it.

Rosie (00:53)
Nothing you don't have. Of

course you don't. Not healthy enough for you. But you know what we need? Instead of a uniform we need to get Rosie and Rula mugs because I feel like you would be okay with that.

Roula (01:06)
I have one. I have two. Uh huh. Uh huh.

Rosie (01:07)
You have one. ⁓ Well you can use that

when we record if you don't feel like wearing your t-shirt.

Roula (01:15)
Yes, but then my glasses. I'm going to miss my beautiful glasses. ⁓ no, I'm going to put a sticker on my glass.

Rosie (01:20)
Well, okay, maybe we need a bit.

on your pretty glass that's gonna look awful.

Roula (01:29)
We will see. Come on, Rosie, let's stop all these rumbling and what do you say? Do you have something on your mind to open up with the episodes?

Rosie (01:35)
Stop, I don't know, stop waffling on. Um, not really. I've

been so tired today. I'm just like, I don't feel like doing anything.

Roula (01:48)
Okay, I do have a couple of things on my mind. remember we recorded a message, we recorded an episode about kindness or about what makes a person a good person, something in this realm. And I didn't have a deadline because I wasn't ready for the episode that, you know, as usual, we're very spontaneous. I didn't have good examples, but today I have

Rosie (02:01)
Yes, yes, yeah.

you

Roula (02:18)
two examples of the first one, how we misunderstand something for kindness, while I think it's not on this example. And the second example, when someone might come across not kind, but actually they are offering kindness.

Rosie (02:19)
Ooh.

Okay, let's go. Let's hear it.

Roula (02:43)
Yes. Do you want to guess or you want me just to take case one and case two and dig into it? OK, so I'm going to give you two cases and you tell me which one is kindness. But I guess I like to throw myself off because I gave you a bit more information anyway. OK, first, this is not a person I know, it's a person who reached out, but I don't know this person, OK?

Rosie (02:47)
I can guess, sure. So you're going to tell me both and I have to guess?

Okay, yep, alright.

doesn't matter let's see let's

⁓ really? Someone

reached out. ⁓ okay.

Roula (03:13)
She's turning 50. And her husband told her he wants to give her a gift, but he doesn't want it to be an experience. He wants to give her a gift that lasts forever. And he told her the budget is 200 pound and told her, get your gift that can last forever.

This is my first example, which might or might not be. Yeah, exactly. It's random. It's random. The second one is a person who I know very well decided that she wants to bring an idea, a boundary, so she can enjoy her day and still look after the boys at comment play.

Rosie (03:37)
Okay, yep, I'm undecided so far. Yes, okay, next one, okay.

Roula (04:02)
Even though people thought that, not people, the person she conversed with, it's a crazy idea. And the idea is to look after the kids with boundaries, which means not spend the whole day looking to their needs and ask the parents to provide them with their needs, like if they are going to a camp, but they're coming over to play. Like they're going to a summer camp.

Rosie (04:28)
So it might be like bring food with

them or something, a toy or yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah.

Roula (04:31)
Yeah, and water, et cetera.

OK, so these are the two cases that I want to talk about, and I really hope it's not going to be a very long episode. So what do you think, Rosie?

Rosie (04:41)
⁓ this,

I think this could be a very long one. What have you done? Okay, maybe this is the answer you expected, maybe not. I think they could both be examples of kindness.

I love this second example where your friend or the person you know well is setting a boundary that I don't think many mums set, but I think a lot of mums could benefit from that. And I think boundaries are kindness. They just are. Even if we don't necessarily like the boundary, the fact that that person is putting that boundary out is a form of kindness, both to themselves. Excuse me, I just burped. Gross.

Roula (05:23)
I do have a turn of events

at the end. I'm gonna cut this one. I'm gonna cut this one. You're gonna cut this one. We don't want to burp on the podcast.

Rosie (05:26)
turn off of it.

Roula (05:34)
No, this is gross, no.

Rosie (05:36)
No it's staying mate, after a sausage shuffle and whatever episode. Whatever. I don't even remember what I was saying because you interrupted.

Roula (05:38)
No, no, no, I'm cutting it.

Rosie (05:50)
⁓ Yeah, I think boundaries are kindness. They are. They might not feel like it, but I think under the surface they are because it benefits everybody. You know what the other person is expecting and you are looking after your own needs by setting that boundary. The other one, the husband saying here's 200 pounds, it on what you want, but it can't be an experience.

I when I say it like that I think, you selfish bastard. ⁓ However, however, that's jumping to conclusions. He wants something his wife can keep forever and rather than him choosing something that she may not like, they've probably been together a while, he could stuff it up, he's going hey, here's the budget, I want you to get whatever you want. Maybe it is kindness. On face value I don't like it. ⁓

But who am I to judge? That's my thought. So tell me which one was kind most, Rula.

Roula (06:49)
The second one for me was kindness. And it has a turn of events, so I'm going to tell you about it later. OK. But the first one, the husband, I find this unkind. We'll stop.

Rosie (06:52)
Mm-hmm.

yes, tell me. ⁓ okay.

It kind of seems lazy.

Roula (07:06)
First, it's not his birthday to choose what she wants to get. It's not his. And I'm saying his because I know it's a male, but it could have been any partner gender wise. So this person, it's not, you know, what we mistake when someone's birthday. Sometimes we don't understand the difference between asking them for what they want, surprising them with what they don't want.

There is, it's difficult, it's difficult, right? Because if someone would ask me what I want for my birthday, I don't know right away. And we sometimes think that we should give an answer right away or the gift should be on the birthday date, which is not necessary. I consumed, for example, my birthday gift a few months later because I only knew what I want a few months later. I took the time to think about it. And

Rosie (07:43)
Right.

Mmm.

Okay. Okay.

Roula (08:02)
This conversation is, it's okay. We think we should give the gifts on a birthday day. No, we can do it later if we are patient with the person. But this is another topic. The thing that I want to say here is that someone cannot decide for the other one what they want. Maybe she wants an experience. No, he said he doesn't want to give an experience.

Rosie (08:14)
Yeah, you're rambling, Rula. You are rambling.

But he's given them the choice. True.

However,

he said choose what you want as long as it's not an experience. I'm being devil's advocate. It is. However, if he's the one giving the gift, he has to feel comfortable with what he's giving. But yeah, I know.

Roula (08:32)
Yes, and this is putting limits. He's being limiting what she wants.

No, he should

not feel comfortable with what he's given because the desire and need of the birthday person are enough. It's not about the giver, it's about the receiver.

So if you ask me what I want for my birthday and I tell you I want something that you are completely against. Okay, I'm not talking about drugs.

Rosie (09:04)
Yeah? Well then I wouldn't get it for you.

Roula (09:10)
Okay, I'm not talking about illegal stuff. ⁓ And you can say, no, I'm not going to give you this gift because it's against my principle, what I believe in, et cetera.

Rosie (09:18)
Well see, there you go. You're

going against what you just said. It is partially about the other person. Okay, okay, okay.

Roula (09:22)
But this is not the situation. This is not the situation.

What I think is that this person took away all responsibility of thinking of a gift, suggesting a gift, going out to buy a gift, and put all the burden on the birthday person.

Rosie (09:36)
Okay, let me stop you. Let me stop you.

Let me stop you. Have you had an experience where someone did this to you because you are fucking triggered by this? Has this happened to you before? No. No?

Roula (09:52)
No, ⁓ no, no, no. ⁓

With time, maybe when I was younger, but with time, I'm very clear what I want for my birthday and what I don't want. And I hope people respect that. If I don't want a surprise, even if you love to give surprises and it makes you so feel incredibly good to give me a surprise, I don't want a surprise. I, the birthday person, not you.

Rosie (09:58)
Mmm.

You don't wanna, yeah.

Mmm. Yeah, I get where you're coming from.

Roula (10:22)
My answer to this... yeah.

My answer to this person is, has been, think of what you want. It's not, so if someone told you, I don't want to give you an experience, I want to give you a gift last forever, go and buy a kitchen aid machine. This lasts forever.

simple. Don't bother thinking what you want to buy. I don't think a person gets to tell another one, I don't want to give you experience on your birthday, I want to give you a gift. That's so rude.

Rosie (10:55)
Yeah, I guess if they want control over the gift,

if they want control over the gift, they need to choose it themselves and buy it. If you're giving someone money to get a gift, yeah, yeah. I think that's where I feel comfortable with this. Because yeah, you're putting limitations. It feels a little bit, I don't know, it feels a bit off, doesn't it, somehow?

Roula (11:03)
I love that.

Do know what was the trigger of the question, the reason of the question from this person?

She doesn't know what she wants. She has everything. And she feels that now she's asking people what would they want on their 50th birthday to get inspiration. Yes.

Rosie (11:33)
So now she's feeling pressure. my gosh. Yeah.

⁓

Roula (11:39)
This is

the hard point. This person now has the burden and the weight to find herself a gift that will please her partner because he is the one who wants to give her something to last forever.

Rosie (11:51)
Gross yeah, and you know what I actually

I love experiences I Love them, and I think they do last forever If people want to get me things that I don't want it's just useless And I've got most of what I want so I love experiences like to have dinner together. Let's go have a picnic It doesn't have to be anything crazy like skydiving. I love experiences

Roula (12:15)
The experience

can be also for her alone. Half a day, few hours. It doesn't have to be together. It's her gift. It's her desire.

Rosie (12:25)
True? True.

interesting.

Roula (12:29)
Now I'm

thinking you said it triggered me. Yes, it triggered me, not on a personal level, because I know it happens. It happens very often. It supported to me not to please. It felt that she also want to please her partner. he's so kind. He want to give me a gift. So I have to please him with the gift he wants to give me. So there is no boundaries and there is people pleasing in this example.

Rosie (12:34)
⁓ But it's important to you, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I can tell it's important to you.

is wrong.

Yuck.

I see where you're coming from. But tell me, you said there was more to the story of the mum who set this boundary. I really want to know. Yeah, the other one, the mum, the mum. Tell me, tell me.

Roula (13:04)
This one, the other one, the other one. yeah, okay, okay. Yes.

So the one who, this one is gonna be very short, very clear, very sweet. I love it. So when this mom set the boundary, one of the person she discussed this boundary with said, no, you can't do this. This is rude. They're in your house. You have to feed them, take care of them. And I said, no, I'm gonna take care of them, but I don't have to stand there hours.

And these are children, difficult with eating. If you cut the bread not the way they want, they won't eat. ⁓ So it's not easy. And I don't have everything in my house that will make them feel satisfied. At the same time, the kids have to eat healthy because when they are spending a day or hours, they also should not eat junk because that's the only thing they want to eat.

Rosie (13:38)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Roula (14:03)
And as not their parent, you don't want to go in the struggle and battle. And then when this boundary has been set, the receiver, so the parents of these kids, appreciated so much. They were thankful. They were happy with it. And it did not cause any awkward situation because they understood they know their children.

Rosie (14:06)
Mmm.

That's beautiful.

Roula (14:30)
And they knew, yeah, the point is that they have fun and not be ⁓ raised by another person just because they don't want to eat, drink, et cetera.

Rosie (14:33)
Yeah. ⁓

And I hope that that experience for these parents made the other parents think, ⁓ I could set the same boundary. Because it is a lot of work to have kids over at your house. Absolutely.

Roula (14:55)
Especially if they're often there, it's like every day. Let's say they're there every day, the whole day. It's summer and the backyard is big and people, children are playing. It doesn't mean that it has to be done every time.

Rosie (14:58)
Mmm.

Roula (15:10)
We must feel comfortable and open to have our own boundaries and desires whenever it works for us too. On days that people are not working, they're free, it's fine. But some people work from home and it's convenient to everybody.

Rosie (15:30)
I think it's an awesome boundary. I'm not a parent, but I freaking love it. And I think you should try that boundary too, Rula. Maybe you already do.

Roula (15:38)
Maybe I invented it.

Rosie (15:40)
Yeah,

I wouldn't be surprised. But for parents out there, think about it. You can set the boundary just because it's not the norm doesn't mean it's not acceptable or that it's unkind. No way. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. So I'm really glad you shared that. Cool story.

Roula (16:02)
What I'm happy is that the receiver of this boundary ⁓ took it with love and kindness, and it came from a place of care and kindness. Because when this situation happens and we don't set a boundary, we become passive aggressive, or we dread what's going to happen. And you don't want to say no because it feels wrong. And at the same time, you are there.

Rosie (16:10)
Mmm.

Roula (16:31)
and you want to do your thing, but you can't because you have so much other stuff unplanned to look after.

Rosie (16:36)
Yeah.

Roula (16:38)
Both sides were kind. And I love to hear that.

Rosie (16:42)
me too. Well I will put the link to the other episode, I can't remember what number it was about whether you're a good or bad person. This is kind of adjacent to that. I like it, I like it. These examples were cool. It was more focusing on kindness. ⁓ Yeah, which we love. Yes we do. Alright, we'll see you in the next one. Bye!

Roula (16:53)
True. Yeah.

Yes, and also people pleasing and boundaries. we also have these episodes.