107: Rosie is Often Misgendered and is the Word "Guys" Gender Neutral?

“Wait… Are You a Guy?”  Rosie got misgendered again. At karaoke. At Bunnings. Even in the bathroom. And this week, she’s finally talking about it. 

From dropping a wrench on her face (yes, really) to navigating the discomfort of being mistaken for a man, this episode dives into gender identity, expression, and what it means when strangers decide who you are—without asking. 

Roula brings personal reflections, linguistic observations, and a bit of French grammar. Rosie gets real about confidence, awkward moments, and whether she should start correcting people. 

This episode explores: 

• Misgendering in everyday life 
• The complicated relationship between clothing and identity 
• Why older generations often default to male norms 
• Whether it’s worth confronting strangers who get it wrong 

If you’ve ever been mistaken for someone you’re not or wrestled with what people see vs. who you are this one’s for you. 

Keywords 

misgendering, identity, gender, cultural perspectives, language, clothing, social interactions, curiosity, humor, personal experiences 

Takeaways 

• Accidents can lead to humorous conversations. 
• Misgendering can be uncomfortable and confusing. 
• Cultural perspectives shape our understanding of gender. 
• Language evolves, and so do its interpretations. 
• Clothing can significantly influence identity perception. 
• Curiosity can help navigate social interactions. 
• It's important to ask how people prefer to be addressed. 
• Generational differences affect language use. 
• Personal experiences shape our views on gender. 
• Social norms can create unexpected reactions.  

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Transcript

Roula (00:03)
You hurt your eye this morning or this afternoon.

Rosie (00:03)
How are you?

Yeah, you said I look like I've been crying.

Roula (00:09)
Yeah.

Rosie (00:12)
Yeah, I heard it. was working on the van and dropped a spanner on my eye.

Roula (00:17)
What is a spanner? ⁓ the thing you turn with.

Rosie (00:20)
Like,

yeah, yeah. I think in the US they call it a wrench. Maybe you know that word. Yeah, yeah.

Roula (00:25)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, Wow, this is heavy. ⁓ Goodness.

Rosie (00:31)
Yeah,

it narrowly missed my eyeball, like right in the corner. I sent you a photo on WhatsApp, you should look.

Roula (00:39)
Hold on, I'm gonna look. Wow.

Rosie (00:40)
because I've cleaned it up now. Plus my webcam's

a bit like fuzzy.

Yeah, that happened like 10 minutes ago. Yeah.

Roula (00:50)
There is blood!

And you're here!

Rosie (00:54)
Yeah, I'm here. I was like, I gotta, I gotta be here.

Roula (00:58)
⁓ your finger is so dirty.

Rosie (01:03)
Moo moo moo. It's what happens when you're working on mechanical things.

Roula (01:06)
yeah

my father was under his cars and the cars of the neighbors all the time all the time fixing every single car in our street our street was like kind of a ghetto

Rosie (01:13)
Really?

Also was the ghetto. I expect nothing less. I can see you in the ghetto.

Roula (01:25)
Can you explain why? I don't know what that means. my goodness. Yes, I'm outspoken. Whatever. But I'm glad your eye is not damaged and that was it. We're going to be careful next time.

Rosie (01:28)
Because you're just so outrageous. I'm just making fun to be honest.

You are a little bit, yes, yes.

Well was being careful, but they do. It did hurt, I must say. It hurts a little bit to blink, but it'll settle down. I wonder if I'll get a black eye. You reckon? It would be a little bit cool.

Roula (01:50)
accidents happen.

That would be so cool. I don't

know. is it cool to have a black guy?

Rosie (02:06)
don't know.

I don't know. Good question. We both think it's cool.

Roula (02:09)
The thing is,

if you have a black eye, someone would think like you were someone hit you a man mostly. And if a man have a black eye, they think he got into a fight. That's like no one ever think it's an accident.

Rosie (02:16)
⁓ yeah, true.

It's so true, so

true.

Actually, maybe this is a good segue into a question that popped into my mind from you saying that. Because obviously I shaved my head a few months ago and I spend a lot of time working on the van. Like I don't go out into social settings much, but in the past couple of weeks I have. I've been to karaoke, been to like shopping centers and out with a couple of people. And I have been misgendered every single.

time and it is so uncomfortable and I don't know what to do about it. I don't know what to do about it. So for example, went to karaoke. My 70 year old neighbor took me out to karaoke and he's, I love your glass ruler. Beautiful. Okay. We'll talk about it So we're at karaoke and he's introducing me to his karaoke friends.

Roula (03:10)
Hmm, that's a quiet thing.

We'll talk about it later about my glass.

Rosie (03:34)
And I said to the lady, hi, I'm Rosie. And she just stared at me. Her mouth dropped open. She said, Rosie. I said, yeah, Rosie. She paused again. Then she went, ⁓ okay. Like it's as if she was just like, but that's a man. Like you got short hair and you're wearing like jeans and a t-shirt. That's a man. She was so, I could see the confusion and the cogs turning in her head.

Roula (04:00)
What if she heard about Rosie and because Rosie is such a feminine name, she expected someone with long hair, big boobs, totally different look.

Rosie (04:13)
I

But what about, okay, what about this? I went to Bunnings, which is a hardware store. Again, with my 70 year old neighbor. And he can't walk very well. So we were waiting for the lift to go up to the first floor. And there was a man also waiting for the lift. And he said, how you going, fellas? To me and my neighbor. And that's something you say to men, fellas. How you going, fellas?

And I just sort of went, yeah, good. ⁓ should I have corrected him?

Roula (04:50)
Was it an old man who said fellas?

Rosie (04:54)
Why is that relevant? You're about to piss me off, aren't you? You really are. you're gonna piss me off so much. He was maybe your age, your age.

Roula (04:56)
It is relevant. I'm going to get you somewhere. I'm going to get you somewhere. ⁓ shut up, Rosie. Just listen.

OK, that's why you prefer to insult me rather say old or young, because it's my age. OK, Rosie, I'm not I'm not suppressing what you think and what you feel. I'm just giving you a different perspective. OK, my best perspectives are not better than yours. Believe me. All right. What if this man who said fellows, he just doesn't know how to greet a woman and he sees men as majority?

Rosie (05:11)
Mm.

Good, okay, all right, all right, I'm listening.

suppose but why not just say how you're going it was just really weird and then I've been called sir before but do you think I should correct people people I don't know when they misgender me I'm probably never gonna see them again what are your thoughts because so far I haven't

Roula (05:36)
Would that also be?

I'm not a gender

expert and I should not be correcting anyone. But from my conversation with Amitista, she's a transition trans from man to woman. And we had this conversation. She said, it's good to ask people, what do you want me to call you? Which, how do you say it? Article. How do you say it? Like, you, is she your pronoun?

Rosie (06:04)
Yeah.

Articulate? okay. Your pronouns.

Roula (06:20)
Okay, but this is a different situation, I think. ⁓ Look, when I was younger, I was a tomboy and I told you about this.

Rosie (06:23)
Yeah, I think so.

Roula (06:31)
⁓ my name was Roland.

Rosie (06:34)
Did you like that?

Roula (06:37)
⁓ it was fun to fool people.

Rosie (06:41)
It was fun, yeah.

So who started it, you or other people?

Roula (06:49)
No other people. Because I was mistaken to be the third brother of my brother and his friend because his friend looked a lot like us. So they thought there's two and I'm third. But it's not about me here. The question is about you being misgendered.

Rosie (06:51)
other people's day.

No, no, no, but this is interesting because

you played along with it and made it into like something fun, right? Okay. Yeah, I just don't know what to do with it.

Roula (07:06)
Yes, But why?

Okay, you want because you want to be identified as a she, you're a woman and you want them to treat you as such.

Rosie (07:20)
I guess. It's just weird being, yeah, being called something I don't identify with. I don't identify as a man. But it's made me think, ⁓

Roula (07:28)
I also don't identify as a man. If someone would tell me, oh, you know, very common thing we say with our friends even, hi guys, because they're a group of guys and girls. And it's inappropriate.

Rosie (07:36)
Yeah. But language changes guys is yeah, guys does no longer means just

men. You think it's inappropriate.

Roula (07:46)
Yes, because guys mean

guys' majority because in the French grammar, if I remember correctly, in the French grammar, if you have a female and a male words and you want to put the verb in plural, it follows the male.

Rosie (07:53)
Heh.

Yeah, that's not cool.

Roula (08:07)
I think I remember the grammar correctly. Please do not judge me. It's been years that I left school and the French language, but I do speak French and I can read and understand. I always felt even from when I was very young, it impressed me. took it. I don't know what it did to me at that time. There were no conversations about gender, but since I was little at school, I couldn't understand why in grammar.

The verb should follow the male and not the female. The default is the male. And it's the same with guys. Hi guys. And there are two guys and five girls.

Rosie (08:39)
Yeah, the default is the mail form. ⁓ gosh.

You know, guys has never, ⁓ irked me because I think maybe there's been a change in language between your generation and mine, maybe because I see guys as gender neutral, but I often, I remember actually some teachers when I was at school, like don't say guys, it's, you know, there's girls as well. But to me, it's like guys is neutral in my eyes. So it's interesting.

Roula (09:16)
I think guys,

that does not hurt the male gender.

and women don't care. But if you enter the room and say, girls, and there are guys, they will be offended. And that's the reality. I'm not being sexist. It's the culture. It's the reality. They will feel left out. They will feel not seen because you said, hi girls.

Rosie (09:29)
This is so true. That's true.

Yeah.

We should do that. We should do an experiment.

Roula (09:44)
Hmm. Yeah.

Rosie (09:45)
Maybe even with your

family, when all the kids are around or a couple of the kids, right? Cause you've got your son, you've got two daughters and then your husband. So, well, even if it's just your husband and your son, right? You just walk out and go, hi girls. Like is there, try it. Is there an equivalent in Dutch to, hey guys. ⁓ but they know English, don't they? Yeah. Okay.

Roula (09:59)
I'm gonna try it.

No, it's not that friendly when you enter a room.

about friendly entering the room, this is a different topic. How I grew up is that maybe you had it too and other people too. When you enter and there are people or when people visit you and you're in your house, you stand up to greet them. And in the first years in the Netherlands, no one did this when I entered the room or someone else enters the room. And I always thought that's so fucking rude. You enter the room and no one really

Rosie (10:27)
Ooooo

Mmm.

Mmm.

Roula (10:39)
Standing up to greeting you and I still don't know what to do with this. I still stand up. I feel it's my How I make you feel welcome

Rosie (10:44)
Isn't that interesting?

Yeah. Like I was almost about to say, ⁓ Roula But actually I stand up and I go, I go and give them a hug or say hello. Because if I stay seated, I almost feel like I'm going, yeah, hi, whatever. Like, I don't care if you're here or not. No biggie. So I'm kind of the same.

Roula (11:04)
Yes, yes. When you're new in a society,

in a culture, it's confusing. Do they want me to be here?

Rosie (11:11)
So do you just stand up

and stay where you are or do you stand up and hug, kiss? What's the

Roula (11:16)
No,

I either hug or I open my arms in a welcoming way or I make eye contact. The eye contact. Yes, I missed that in the beginning in the years here and it didn't change. I changed. I stopped wanting to be like them and continued being myself. Yeah.

Rosie (11:19)
Yeah

Hmm.

You changed.

⁓ I see what you mean.

I thought you meant you changed to follow the Dutch culture, but you meant you stopped. You decided to be you. I like that.

Roula (11:38)
No, no.

Let's go back to the misgender because I have a question for you.

Rosie (11:45)
Okay.

Roula (11:49)
When this lady said, Rosie, didn't you ask her why are you surprised? Didn't want to know more?

Rosie (12:00)
Hmm. It's a good question. I didn't approach it with curiosity. I just thought, for fuck's sake. That's what I thought in my head. was like, But credit to her. didn't say anything offensive, but I could just see it really took her by surprise. It was quite blatantly took her by surprise and she really had to like figure out what was going on.

Roula (12:24)
You're very

young, you're 180 centimeter, your head is shaved, you're casually dressed, and you're going to dance with 70 and 80 years old people and you expect them not to be surprised that your friend is 70 year old. How about that?

Rosie (12:37)
Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. But

in contrast, I met another 70 year old at karaoke. In fact, she was 74. She didn't give a crap. She didn't bat an eyelid when I said my name was Rosie. She was quite modern, actually. She was wearing her converse and they were black, but with bleach bits on it. She must work out because her calves were like really well defined and her hair was all...

darn, she was cool. I she was a modern lady.

Roula (13:09)
Let's bring

me to our other ⁓ episode. Do clothes make the person?

Rosie (13:13)
⁓ should we wrap this one up then? ⁓

yes, that was a recent one, wasn't it? Do clothes make the person?

Roula (13:18)
Yes, see how you're excited

about that lady who's dressed, et cetera. It's like the clothes made the person and the clothes made you being confused with a boy. I'm not saying this is an answer to our episode. I'm just saying how close.

Rosie (13:22)
Yes! Ooh!

No, that's,

it's true. I think it made a difference. Cause if I was wearing a dress, I think it would be quite different.

Roula (13:40)
Yes, I'm looking back to see episode... what number? Yeah, so it's episode... huh, very interesting, number 80.

Rosie (13:43)
What number? Yeah.

80.

Roula (13:53)
Does what

we wear define us.

Rosie (13:56)
Hmm. Yes, to close with. Yeah. Yes. All right. Go listen to episode 80, because we do talk about that, but you're right. I think that definitely played a role in that. And I still don't know if I should have corrected them. I kind of feel like, like no big deal. If it was someone I was going to see again, I guess I would, because I wouldn't want it to keep happening. That would not feel nice.

Roula (14:20)
They can't be surprised

twice.

Rosie (14:23)
true but I don't know maybe they think I'm a man with the name Rosie I don't know it's just weird it's just an observation I've had and I don't know what to do with it I'm really unsure ask why why are you surprised why did you call me a man

Roula (14:34)
Now next time ask. Get BB.

if they called you a man, yes? Why are you so... But don't ask it seriously, ask it playfully because people will feel like threatened by your question. I don't know, do whatever you want. Dear listeners...

Rosie (14:45)
even if it's someone at the checkout.

Mmm.

I don't know if I'm capable

of that.

Roula (14:59)
Rosie, go into practice to kindly be curious and ask questions. And we really want to hear from you. Have you been misgendered? And do you care about that?

Rosie (14:59)
Let us know your thoughts.

Hmm.

you know what else? This is just really quickly. I was out in the shopping center. I went to the bathroom because there's ladies and men's bathrooms here in Australia. There's not generally a neutral bathroom, gender neutral bathroom. Anyway, I was walking out and a lady was walking in and I saw her like all of a sudden stop and there was this look of absolute fear on her face when she saw me. And then she clocked, ⁓ that's a woman and kept walking. And I thought, fuck, my God.

Roula (15:42)
Wow!

Rosie (15:43)
Whoa, I was really confronted by that. I'm like, wow, not that her reaction was wrong, but it, again, it just goes to show our appearance, our clothes very much.

Roula (15:55)
But

you know, I think since you shaved your head, this is happening, right? Did that happen before when you had long hair?

Rosie (15:59)
yeah, wasn't happening before.

As a child it would happen though. Just saying. Anyway, let us know your thoughts. Have you been misgendered? Should I pick a fight with these people? Should I ask with curiosity or do I just shrug it off? No big deal. Lemme know.

Roula (16:12)
I love this ending, alright? Bye!

Rosie (16:15)
Bye!