The Rosie and Roula Show

99: What Does Freedom Really Mean and What Does It Mean to You Today!

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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What Does Freedom Really Mean? 

What does freedom mean to you—right now, in this exact chapter of your life? 

In this raw and vulnerable episode, Rosie and Roula explore how freedom shows up differently for each of us—depending on who we are, how we were raised, and where life has brought us. 

What starts with a powerful book passage from The Zahir by Paulo Coelho becomes a heartfelt conversation about control, parenthood, identity, rebellion, and the courage it takes to let go of our expectations—not just for ourselves, but for the people we love. 

Rosie gets real about how being stuck in one place has helped her redefine freedom, while Roula opens up about what it means to raise daughters who make different choices than the ones she dreamed for them—and why that is proof she raised them right. 

In this episode: 

  • Why freedom isn't one-size-fits-all 
  • How adversity can sharpen your sense of agency 
  • What it means to choose your response, even when life feels out of control 
  • The clash between generational values and evolving definitions of freedom 
  • Why we sometimes revert to old beliefs when under pressure 
  • The role of real friendship in helping us return to ourselves 

Quote we loved: 

“I realized I was behaving in all the ways I once fought to be free from.” — Roula 

This episode is for anyone who's felt stuck, misunderstood, or torn between love and letting go. If you're questioning what freedom looks like for you, this one will hit home. 

💬 What does freedom mean to you? We'd love to know. Share your thoughts at rosieandroula.com or drop us a message on Instagram. 

Keywords 

  

freedom, personal growth, parenting, self-awareness, generational differences, emotional control, societal expectations, self-discovery, podcast, empowerment 

 

Takeaways   

  • Freedom is not tangible; it's a feeling and a response. 
  • The ultimate freedom is freedom of thought and choice. 
  • We can control how we respond to life's challenges. 
  • Every individual's definition of freedom is unique. 
  • Parenting teaches us that our children's freedom may differ from our own. 
  • Freedom can change over time and with life experiences. 
  • Challenging perspectives can lead to personal growth. 
  • It's important to seek out those who challenge our thinking. 
  • Being self-aware is a form of freedom everyone can achieve. 
  • Engaging in conversations about freedom can lead to deeper insights. 

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Roula (00:01)
Rosie, I'm reading a book and I was reading a passage that made me think of you and of your purpose in life. I'm going to read a little bit from it and I want you to guess what's the topic. Why did you roll your eyes? That's so rude.

Rosie (00:08)
Ooh. ⁓

Okay. Is it about

van life and dogs and being a mechanic? All right, come on then. All right, let's go.

Roula (00:21)
I don't know, I cannot give you any hints yet. Okay,

I'm gonna read this a little bit. I've spent a large part of my life enslaved to one thing or another. So I should know the meaning of the word. Ever since I was a child, I have fought to make ⁓ my most precious commodity. I fought with my parents who wanted me to be an engineer, not a writer. I fought

with the other boys at school who immediately homed me in, homed in on me as the butt of their cruel jokes. And only after much blood had flowed from my nose and from theirs, only after many afternoons when I had to hide my scars from my mother, because it was up to me, not to her, to solve my problems. Did I manage to show them that I could take a trashing without bursting into tears?

I fought to get a job to support myself and went to work as a delivery man for a hardware store. So as to be free from that old line in family blackmail, we'll give you money, but you'll have to do this, this and this. I fought, I fought, I fought. And while I was fighting, I heard other people speaking in the name of the word, Rosie, that you have to guess.

And the more they defended this unique right, the more enslaved they seemed to be to their parents' wishes, to their marriage, etc., etc. Even on the bathroom scale, to the diet, to the half-finished projects, to lovers, to whom they were incapable of saying no or it's over. And let's continue. Would you guess what the topic would be?

Rosie (02:27)
You know, I'm not going along with the lie that we've just been going on with, because you told me the topic. All right, everybody? You did tell me the topic. However, if I pretend, no, no, no, no, no, if I pretend I didn't know the topic, you know what kept coming to mind is free will.

Roula (02:31)
It was freedom.

Okay, you ruined it. Then no point of reading.

but that's the good one too, because it is part of it.

Rosie (02:49)
But tell the listener what is...

Yeah, tell the listener what is it? What was it about?

Roula (02:55)
It's

about freedom. The book is not about freedom. Only this passage I felt so... The passage is much longer and I skipped stuff. I don't hope it's boring for the listeners. It felt so powerful. It's a book by Paolo Culho It's called The Zahir. And ⁓ this passage about freedom and free will. I was like, I have to talk to Rosie about it and ask her.

Rosie (02:59)
Okay.

Well, they can bugger off.

Roula (03:24)
Today, in this time of life where you are, what does freedom mean to you?

Rosie (03:30)
⁓ How very dare you ask me the question that is the the ground stone of my podcast. What does freedom mean to me? Ooh.

I think it's more, it's not tangible. I don't think it's something you physically have. It's a feeling and it's how you respond to things. So yes, you could talk about financial freedom, location freedom, and yeah, there are types of freedom, but the ultimate freedom to me is freedom of thought.

freedom of choice.

And when life throws things at you that are less than ideal, for example, my van's been broken down, I've been stuck here five months, that stuff that feels shit, it's freedom that I can say, well, you know what? I am going to start a podcast with Rula because that's what happened. I am going to start crowdfunding to help me replace my electrical system. I am going to go play with Tilly. I...

I'm not going to let this shit bring me down. That is freedom. And the funny thing is freedom gives you a sense of control as well.

Roula (05:04)
Can you explain that?

Rosie (05:06)
Well, the fact that I am choosing how I respond to the situation I'm in gives me control. I can't control what happened, but I can control how I respond. But it's that allows me to respond in whatever way I choose. Am I making sense? Is this just going in circles?

Roula (05:34)
know for the listener, for me you're making sense because what I hear you say is I'm free to respond and my freedom is to choose my response. So you're not enslaved in your emotions, you're not enslaved in these things that

Rosie (05:38)
Mm.

Roula (05:56)
⁓ made you do the things afterwards you will feel guilty or you will hurt someone or whatever. You hurt yourself even. It is a freedom to choose your reaction. Freedom from your own anger maybe or frustration.

Rosie (06:02)
Mmmhmm.

Roula (06:18)
Did I explain it correctly?

Rosie (06:18)
And I, yeah,

you're right. And I think that's something that everybody is capable of doing. Financial freedom. Can everyone reach that? Probably not. Get real, you know? Okay, maybe it's possible, but people are starting at different levels. It is possible, but that's, it's going to be a stretch for some of us. But can everybody learn how to become more self-aware and think about how they're responding to things?

Heck yeah they can. That is freedom. And people might say, Rosie, that's bullshit. That's not freedom. But I kind of think it is. And I have never given that definition before, because I've answered this question a few times on my podcast. It's kind of been along the same vein, but I've never answered it like that. Thank you for asking that.

Roula (07:14)
Freedom is not a state of mind or feeling.

Rosie (07:19)
yeah. Just like happiness.

Roula (07:21)
And this is why

you have a different answer. Your life experience now is different. So freedom means something else.

Rosie (07:30)
This is true. Yeah, you're so right.

Roula (07:39)
have been thinking of freedom a lot lately because I realized what's freedom for me is not freedom for you.

Rosie (07:49)
Yeah, tell me, what does freedom mean to you?

Roula (07:55)
That's a whole thing that's keeping me busy in the past few weeks because I raised my daughters to have the freedom to make their own decisions and feel free in empowering themselves, agreeing, disagreeing, making their choices.

Rosie (08:00)
Mmm.

Roula (08:19)
not being influenced by things around them, which I don't mean not being influenced because we're all influenced by everything around us. On my mind, when I was teaching them, I was thinking of the freedom that I like for myself, hoping that they will like it for themselves. And when I say this is because I all my life wanted to be free from societal expectations. I wanted to be free from what is expected of me as a girl, as a woman.

Rosie (08:36)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roula (08:49)
⁓ I wanted to be free from not speaking my mind and feel confident in what I'm saying. Even if people don't agree with it, that's my opinion. So my freedom journey, I taught it to my kids. And then I realized their freedom is so different than mine. And sometimes we clash because I'm liberal and outgoing. And my daughter, my eldest daughter is

conservative and need different kind of stuff in her life. So I thought we're clashing. I want her to be free, but she's not given this choice to herself. And then I realized her freedom is different than mine. What makes her feel content and doing the things she wants to do are very different from what makes me feel free.

Rosie (09:22)
Yeah.

Wow.

Roula (09:46)
Really, I think my journey with my daughter taught me how every freedom is different. And it doesn't mean in my eyes it's not freedom, because it's none of my business how they feel about their freedom. They're not hurting me. They're not hurting themselves. They're being good for people, for humanity, for the earth, for everything. They're good people.

Rosie (10:04)
Mm.

Roula (10:17)
And this is when I read this passage, it struck with me a note, because we think that freedom is something that does not change. This is how I think, this is my free thinking. But life bring us places where we have to reconsider, recalibrate, just like for you, you said you have not talked about freedom this way before.

Rosie (10:33)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm. Mm. It's changed. Yeah. In this chapter of life, it's going to change again. I like how you framed it. It does change. And the struggle you've been going through of your freedom and your daughter's freedom looking quite different, but coming to the powerful realization, ⁓ when it comes down to it, at the end of the day, we're both seeking freedom.

Roula (11:14)
Yeah, we both seeking freedom, even if it means it's defying what I want for them. Because we raise our kids, we want them to go to school, to go to university, to have a good job, to have a good partner, have a child, a dog, this whole traditional circle. And these are not my children. They want other things in life for them. But what I thought

is they want to travel and backpack somewhere and this was not their freedom. They had a different idea of freedom. I'm not going to talk about it because it's private to them. I'm only talking about my experience. And I realized parents are happy when their kids follow the path that they want for them.

Rosie (12:02)
Isn't that the truth? Yeah.

Roula (12:04)
And when they don't do, we feel, are we a failure? Did we raise them wrong, et cetera? And then this is where exactly I realized, fuck, I raised them amazingly because I taught them to be free and she chose her freedom.

Rosie (12:23)
Damn straight she did. Well done mum. Right? Wow.

Roula (12:25)
And,

This realization made me so happy.

Rosie (12:31)
And I remember

few weeks ago. And we spoke exactly through this, but you weren't feeling clear and all of that. Like right now you are clear and you are a proud mom, both of yourself and your daughter. And isn't that beautiful? What a lesson. What a lesson.

Roula (12:51)
Rosie our conversation helped me a lot to be here with my thoughts. When I called you, I was wrapped with societal expectations, with family dynamics, with what the world think. I was not thinking freely.

Rosie (12:54)
Mm. Mm.

Yeah. I remember.

Mmm! Mmm!

Roula (13:10)
I was

behaving in every possible way that I wanted to be free of. And you guided me and took me out of the spiral. Really, this is what you did. took me. close. If people are watching YouTube, I'm closing my eyes because you took me out of the spiral. You put me next to it and you told me. Rula, you raised them to be free. So what are you talking about now?

Rosie (13:15)
so true.

Roula (13:41)
So no wonder, Rosie, that you are, your podcast is the pursuit of freedom because you showed me what I can do with my freedom.

Rosie (13:50)
It's like the most heartfelt and meaningful compliment I have ever got because to see you when you were in the thick of it, like call it what you want, meltdown, overwhelm, and then here you are now grounded and clear. Isn't that freedom?

Roula (14:11)
Freedom from feeling bad.

Rosie (14:12)
And I love,

yeah, and I love how you said the way you were behaving and talking was exactly what you were trying to be free from. And it was, cause I remember the conversation going, who is this lady? who? Some of the things you were saying, I'm like, what? What was this rule breaker and da da da da, all these things. But when you were in crisis mode, isn't it funny how we revert to what is familiar and what we were raised.

or conditioned to behave like or to think.

Roula (14:48)
And you know what you made me realize, Rosie, is that when we are going through, do we call it adversity, difficult time, et cetera, we must not seek the people that agree with our behavior. We must seek the ones who are challenging us.

Rosie (14:55)
Yeah, yeah.

That's the most difficult part though, isn't it?

Roula (15:08)
Yes, it's difficult, it's painful, it's horrifying. But a trustworthy person, a good friend, also a good friend can agree with us, of course, because they feel it with us. But it's good to also talk to different people and have different perspectives without reacting or agreeing. Take the time to think and to...

Rosie (15:21)
Right. ⁓

Yeah, just process.

Roula (15:37)
Because if I would speak to my sisters or to other people would be agreeing on everything I'm feeling, and this does not help. It won't help me. I need someone to give me perspective. Other ways of thinking.

Rosie (15:47)
Mmm. Did you feel like I listened

to you though? Did I listen?

Roula (15:55)
Yeah, you did!

Rosie (15:57)
And isn't that cool? Someone can listen and still challenge.

Roula (15:59)
Yeah, you listened,

you were compassionate and you opened my eyes. So this is the flow that you took me in.

Rosie (16:05)
Wow.

This has made my day. It's 5.30 p.m. and I'm like ready to go out and party. That's like the highest compliment I can receive, honestly. It's just so special and I hope our listeners get something from that too. You're not always gonna be in that state of overwhelm. You're not always gonna be there.

Roula (16:17)
Ha!

I hope so.

Yes. For our listeners, it's good to take the time and think what freedom means to you.

Rosie (16:44)
Yes, send us a message!

Roula (16:47)
Yes.

Rosie (16:48)
Talk about

it on my podcast. I want to write a book about it, but that's a whole other thing. But send us in, please. What does freedom mean to you? This is like sex to me. Roula obsessed with the sex? Obsessed probably isn't the right word, but this is like a deep part of who she is. And freedom is a deep part of me.

Roula (17:03)
No, I'm obsessed with having.

Yes, freedom is a deep part of you. And for me, I'm obsessed and having people be self-concentrate about the things they like for themselves.

Rosie (17:15)
Yes.

Yes. Ooh, pleasure. Is pleasure the right word? Because that's not only sex, is it? Yeah. Well, this was a fun conversation. I liked this.

Roula (17:24)
Pleasure, yeah. Exactly.

vulnerable. Thank you for listening.

Rosie (17:33)
Yeah.

Thank you,

Roula (17:37)
Bye!