The Rosie and Roula Show

89: Should Stay at Home Parents Get Paid and How

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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Should Stay-at-Home Parents Get Paid?

Roula and Rosie unpack the economic, emotional, and societal weight of unpaid parenting. From mental burnout to tax-funded solutions, they dig into why parenting often feels invisible and what could change if we actually valued it.

With zero political qualifications and 100% real talk, they ask:
👉 Is it time to pay parents?
👉 Who benefits  and who pays?
👉 Are there better alternatives than a paycheck?


In this episode:

* Why dancing can shift your mental state
* Parenting as unpaid labour
* The case for and against a salary
* Who pays, who benefits, and who gets left behind
* Cultural differences in parenting support
* Creative alternatives: benefits, vouchers, and free childcare
* Why community support matters more than ever



Takeaways:

  •  Dancing really can lift your mood
  •  Parenting is unpaid work — and exhausting
  • A salary isn’t the only solution — but reform is overdue
  •  Mental health support for parents is vital
  • Global systems treat parenting differently
  • Fewer kids may mean long-term population impacts
  • Benefits like childcare and recreation could be game-changers
  • We’re not experts  but we are living it




Links & Mentions:

🎧 [Episode 24: "Choosing Not to Have Kids"](https://link-to-ep24.com)
🎵 *Le Poisson Steve* — the trending tune Rosie couldn’t resist
💬 Tell us what you think: salary or no salary?

Join the conversation. Share the episode. 


 parenting, stay-at-home parents, unpaid labour, mental health, economic value, family support, child-rearing, government policy, benefits vs. salary, social systems

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Roula (00:01)
So Rosie, hold on. In the past episode, I explained that I was dancing alone and you were dancing alone. I was in France, you're in Australia. Why were you dancing alone in your van and posting it on social media?

Rosie (00:15)
You know what? I was feeling a little bit down and there was this song that is trending on social media at the moment called Le Poisson Steve. And I was like, I'm just going to do a silly dance. Like shake my sillies out. There's a kid's song over here. Shake, shake, shake your sillies out. Like you just feel better if you dance and shake, right? So that's what I did. And I thought I'm going to share it with other people because I want to lift their spirits too. And I don't care if I look like an idiot. I...

am not a talented dancer. No way. But my vibes were on point. You're watching that video. Yeah, right? Watching that, you would have thought, yeah, she looks like she's having fun.

Roula (00:50)
were on point.

Do you know what I think it's cute? I would never get up and stand on children's song. ⁓ Unless I'm forced because there are children around. But a children's song that get me go vibing? my goodness, never. But it was cool, yes, when I watched it, I was like, that's... I somehow knew you needed it. We didn't talk, but I knew. Are you feeling better after dancing?

Rosie (01:00)
⁓

You

Yeah. True. Yeah.

I felt much better,

I a million times better, lifted my spirits immediately. And you know what, was early hours in the morning and I just needed to dance and the whole band was rocking around. Because a vehicle's on suspension, right? So I'm jumping around and the band's rocking and Tilly's looking at me going, mom, what are you doing? It was great.

Roula (01:37)
Yes!

So great, amazing. Okay, now that you're in a good mood, tell me, what are we talking about today?

Rosie (01:49)
shit. Well, that's a wonderful question. I want to talk about something a little bit spicy.

Roula (01:57)
spicy hot or spicy

Rosie (01:59)
Spicy. ⁓

no. See our minds went somewhere different. Not spicy hot, spicy controversial. And I think you're going to have a lot to say.

Why do...

I was gonna say mums, but let's just say stay at home parents, because it could be the dad or someone else. Why is there no salary?

Roula (02:36)
Whaaat? That's not very far from my thoughts in the past weeks.

Rosie (02:43)
Mmm.

Roula (02:46)
My thoughts will go back to our episodes in the beginning. Let me see what was it about wanting to have children or not. I can't remember the number of the episode. Look it up while I'm talking.

Rosie (02:55)
Yeah?

Okay.

Roula (03:03)
I

Rosie (03:05)
Episode 24.

Roula (03:07)
Episode 24, having children or not wanting children. And something we didn't touch on is that when we want to have children, the system around us is not giving us a reward. We work more than eight hours as a stay at home parent, while the other parent have to work even more so they can earn enough to have a life, even for the basics.

Rosie (03:25)
Oh yeah. Uh huh.

Roula (03:37)
and women are ⁓ blamed or confronted that they don't want children and in reality if we don't have children we'll be extinct so we must have children. Yes, that's also debatable. I mean we have to talk about this in a different way. And if there is no salary for stay at home parents

Rosie (03:49)
Yeah, humankind depends on it.

Roula (04:05)
How can we avoid all the stress, the mental health, the boredom, the feeling of not getting anywhere? And yes, people will say, but you're raising your kids. I think those who say that don't have kids because raising kids is really hard and painful. And you laugh a minute and you cry for days. That's the reality. So stay at home parents must have a salary.

Rosie (04:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Hmm... So,

So you think having a salary would improve the experience of stay at home parents.

Roula (04:38)
Yes,

then you have more money to get a babysitter. Then you have more money for a mom to go out or for a dad, for that stay at home parent. So they can also have a time to breathe, maybe sport, maybe do something, a hobby that gets them out of the house. So when they can come in, they have energy again. And Rosie, let me tell you why I think there is no salary. Because mothers...

Rosie (04:41)
you

Yeah, let's hear it. Yeah.

Roula (05:07)
have been taken for granted, they are the ones staying at home. And fathers have been taken for granted, they are the bread earners.

Rosie (05:18)
It goes both ways doesn't it? Yeah. Now my question is who pays this salary then?

Roula (05:27)
We as taxpayers, why don't we find a way? I don't have a solution.

Rosie (05:31)
What if I said, I don't have kids, why am I paying? But

let's be devil's advocate. I don't have kids, why am I paying extra taxes so someone else can choose to sit on their ass and look after their kids? How entitled.

Roula (05:43)
Because when you

as a person with no kids get older and you have to stop working and be taken care of, the money of the taxpayer will fill into your pension, let's say. And who are the taxpayers? Us, our children, the generation coming. I think it's very wrong for people who don't have kids to think, why do I have to do it for you because you have kids?

Rosie (06:00)
Pension. Mmm.

tree.

Roula (06:13)
At the end of the day, you're also benefiting socially from the people who have kids.

Rosie (06:17)
Yeah,

yeah, let's raise each other up. Why do we have to be enemies?

Roula (06:22)
Yes, it's a circle. It's a full circle. If you don't have kids, someone have a kid and that kid is a doctor and this doctor is saving your life.

Rosie (06:33)
Yeah, yeah, this is true. I can't argue. Yeah. So we need some reform then.

Roula (06:41)
We do. This will also encourage women to have more children.

Rosie (06:46)
Is that a good thing?

Roula (06:48)
Sometimes it is because look if more and more women don't want to have children it means we will have less children, less people. In a way it's good to have less people. We're ruining so many things.

Rosie (06:59)
But you know what, well yeah, Ben, you know what goes through my mind?

I think there's a housing crisis, there's climate change, look at the political climate at the moment and all the awful things that are happening. Do I really wanna bring a new life into this world because the trajectory I see perhaps isn't so positive for the world I would be bringing them into.

Roula (07:26)
I love that we're talking about this because we both are not like qualified. In my mind, I think, okay, Rosie, what if for the coming 20 years or coming, I don't know how many, how many years a child need to start going to school. So let's say all these children now we're not getting paid for being stay at home parents. All these children will grow up to become parents only then.

Rosie (07:31)
Yeah, totally not qualified yet.

Mm-hmm.

Roula (07:53)
they cannot start earning money. So we say for 20 years, we had less children because women don't want children. They can't earn money, their career, their life, their sanity. So in these 20 years, we are recovering the planet. We are recovering from the food crisis. Maybe we need more than 20 years. I don't know. And then when our kids or their kids are at age to reproduce,

Rosie (08:03)
Mm.

Roula (08:22)
This is where we give them salary because by then the earth needs more people.

Rosie (08:31)
You think it's part of the solution. What if people start taking advantage of that though? People who don't really want kids, but they want a way to have an extra income. They want to play the system.

Roula (08:44)
Rosie, why do you have sometimes good challenging questions?

Rosie (08:48)
Because I can tell you now that will happen. It happens here. I'm sure it happens in the Netherlands all over the world. Government benefits. think majority of people is very genuine and they need this support and they deserve it. But some people play the system to get extra money when really they're not in need.

Roula (08:53)
Yes, true.

Mmm.

That's so true. I have no idea how to answer this.

I don't know.

Rosie (09:18)
Okay. Wow. I think this is the first time you have said, don't know to a question on here. Whoa. Whoa.

Roula (09:19)
How do you see it?

this much. ⁓ I'm ⁓

pretentious. Rosie, tell me, tell me what's your idea on this? I'll give you the mic.

Rosie (09:37)
Give me the, thank you very much. I don't know either. What, how, how do you solve this? I think there is a huge price to pay for choosing to be a stay at home parent. There are huge upsides, spending time with your children. I don't know what else, but yes. And, but there's also downsides and I'm not convinced that being given a salary.

Roula (09:59)
It's it.

Rosie (10:05)
to be a stay at home parent would make the experience.

considerably better for me. Maybe I'm just naive because I don't have that life experience, but

Roula (10:19)
So what if we say, of paying a salary, give them more benefits?

Rosie (10:20)
I guess I would take pressure off. Yeah, go on.

Yeah, like free childcare.

Roula (10:30)
Free childcare, free vouchers to go out to the cinema, discounts, big discounts, maybe even for free, good quality. Food, ⁓ gym, hobbies. Yeah, things where parents can benefit from that don't involve salaries. only those who really love to have children and want to be good to them, they can have them.

Rosie (10:35)
Heck yeah, see this I like.

Yeah. Food. Yeah.

I love that. I love that.

Roula (10:59)
and not exploit the salivary.

Rosie (11:00)
think that's an awesome idea.

That's an awesome idea. Love it. I guess it takes away some of the agency because if people are given a salary, they choose how they spend the money depending on what they need and what they enjoy. But I guess if there's benefits other than monetary ones, you give a variety and people have choice there. I actually love the idea. I think that's awesome.

Roula (11:25)
more benefits let's say benefits no salary but benefits yeah ⁓ cool we figured this one out

Rosie (11:29)
benefits. Okay, cool. All right. Who's going to do it first, the Netherlands

or Australia? What?

Roula (11:36)
We figured this one out. ⁓

Rosie (11:37)
I think we

did. Benefits for all. Parents deserve it.

Roula (11:40)
yes Australia

is very big it's gonna take time to enroll it

Rosie (11:46)
I mean, big in terms of land, not in population, yeah.

Roula (11:49)
learned.

What's your population? Do you have any idea?

Rosie (11:55)
Let

me look, it'll be way less than the Netherlands, hang on. Australia population, gotta love Google. 26.7 million as of 2023. And the Netherlands.

Roula (12:11)
Maybe it's slicing.

Rosie (12:16)
we are more is 17.9 million.

Roula (12:18)
yes i

imagine 17 because 24 years ago when i moved to here there was a song 15 million people 15 million people on a small piece of land so i can imagine it's now 17 yeah i mean

I don't know about the systems in Australia. I'm kind of confident at the moment in the Netherlands, they are completely incompetent. So it's going to take very long.

Rosie (12:50)
Really? Really? Because the

general impression over here is the Netherlands is very contemporary and forward in their thinking.

Roula (12:57)
It is,

it is, it is in all these ways. It's beautiful, beautiful. The roads, tech, everything, everything here is amazing. Yeah, at the moment we have a horrible government and they're not able to achieve anything, zero. But we're not getting into politics.

Rosie (13:02)
Mm.

But you just said that you just said your country is incompetent. So I'm confused.

Mmm.

We've got the federal election at the moment.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Moving on. Not politics. We're not a political podcast here. We're a human connection podcast talking about the shit that matters and maybe the stuff that doesn't matter too. So yes, not a salary for parents, a benefit. What do you reckon?

Roula (13:30)
couldn't end it any better. A benefit.

Let us know. We love you! Bye!

Rosie (13:35)
No

I loved that.