The Rosie and Roula Show

88: When Hard Truth is met with Defensiveness, Manipulation or Silence

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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Is It Really Your Fault They Feel That Way? 

“You made me feel like this.” 

Ever heard that line? Ever said it? This week, Rosie and Roula take on one of the trickiest dynamics in relationships: emotional responsibility. Who's accountable for how we feel? What happens when someone twists your words into their wounds? 


From gaslighting to guilt trips to the minefield of honest communication, Rosie and Roula dive deep into the emotional tug-of-war that happens when hard truths are met with defensiveness, manipulation or silence. 


  • This episode explores: Why emotional responsibility is yours (and not theirs) 
  • The difference between expressing and projecting 
  • How gaslighting warps our perception of truth 
  • Why “choosing your battles” can save your sanity 
  • The quiet freedom of walking away from toxic dynamics Keywords


Takeaways 

  • It's important to prioritize your own feelings. 
  • You are not fully responsible for how others feel. 
  • Gaslighting can occur in various relationships, not just romantic ones. 
  • Open and honest communication is key to resolving conflicts. 
  • Choosing your battles can lead to healthier relationships. 
  • Acknowledging the other person's feelings is crucial. 
  • You don't always have to fix the other person's feelings. 
  • Accountability is essential in any relationship. 
  • Not every issue needs to be a battle. 
  • It's okay to walk away from toxic relationships. 

 

family dynamics, emotional responsibility, gaslighting, communication, accountability, relationships, conflict resolution, self-awareness, personal growth, emotional intelligence



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Roula (00:00)
My husband was on the phone yesterday and I asked Liam, I forgot that my husband was in a call. I said to Liam, go and ask daddy, does he want beans in tomato sauce or he wants broccoli? And because he's on the phone, so Liam wrote here, I put it in front of him so he can select what he wants.

Rosie (00:20)
tick a box.

That's really cute.

Roula (00:29)
All right, here we go.

Rosie (00:31)
Hit me.

Roula (00:43)
Rosie, this week we kind of have related topics. And this last one today must be Friday if we're good at publishing these episodes.

Rosie (00:48)
Mm.

You

Roula (00:57)
Am I taking a big risk in saying this? Yeah, why am I saying this? Like, what's the purpose of all of this? Just shut up, Roula Okay.

Rosie (01:00)
I don't know why you're saying that, I've got no idea. Shut

up and get on with it.

Roula (01:07)
I have a question for you.

Rosie (01:09)
Mm-hmm. How unusual.

Roula (01:13)
Ha ha ha!

Do you think other other person is responsible for how they make you feel?

Rosie (01:27)
⁓

No. Or maybe, maybe, ⁓ it's hard because I, I still do this. I put other people's feelings before my own and I worry about how they're going to feel when I say something or make a certain choice or decision. But I don't think that's the right way to do things. You should be looking after yourself. You might hurt somebody and

Okay, it's good to be aware that that could be an outcome, but I don't necessarily think.

You're responsible for that. Perhaps you're partially responsible because you are taking an action and that action is going to have a consequence. But are you fully responsible for it? Hell no.

Roula (02:21)
give you an example and I want you to build on it. What you said so far is good, is yes I approve. You come to someone and you tell them about something that's annoying you, behavior they did that annoys you. And that person gets angry, defensive, upset and they tell you

Rosie (02:22)
Okay, okay, Okay.

You approve? Okay, good.

Mm-hmm. Okay, okay.

Roula (02:49)
look how you're making me feel. This is because of you that I'm feeling angry because let's say they raised their voice or they said something hurtful and then you're like where is this coming from and then they tell you you make me feel this way you make me feel this way.

Rosie (03:09)
So it's the person who, which person is feeling that? Tell me again. I'm confused. Yeah.

Roula (03:15)
person who's angry it

could be you it could be you so you had an argument or some somebody gave you a hard truth and then

Rosie (03:25)
huh. Okay. you've,

so Roula, I've done something that's upset you and you've come to me and you've said, look, Rosie, I really don't like it when you do this. And I have got really defensive and angry. Is that what we're saying? Okay. All right.

Roula (03:36)
Yes, yes.

And then you said to me, you accused me that if I didn't bring up this topic, you wouldn't feel angry.

Rosie (03:43)
that's bullshit.

That's bullshit. That person shouldn't be a friend. That is... that is... I think they do. They're called narcissists.

Roula (03:47)
Do you think that these people exist?

Rosie (03:56)
If I think it's okay, of course it's okay to have feelings and you might come to me and I probably will get angry initially because I'm being called out on something and probably something I didn't realize I was doing. But if I then make it about me and saying, you're the one making me upset.

Roula (03:56)
Yeah!

Rosie (04:19)
Well, that's, that's probably what you'd call gaslighting as well. Like, no, no, that's not okay. You can't, no, I really dislike that. if you came.

Roula (04:29)
Can you give me definition

of gaslighting? Because maybe the listeners, not all listeners, aware of gaslighting.

Rosie (04:32)
fuck. I still struggle with this.

Gaslighting, I think is when somebody, it's often in a romantic relationship, not always. Someone sort of gets in your head. So Roula, if I was gaslighting you, you're feeling like I'm being very dismissive of your feelings and I'm not listening, things like that. And you come to me and you tell me that.

And I'll say, well, not, what are you talking about? I'm always so lovely to you. And I do this and I do that. And in fact, you're the one you're hurting my feelings. How dare, why are you coming and making me feel like shit? I feel so terrible. You're, you're being so mean. That's gaslighting. And if all these responses, eventually you're going to get in your head and start questioning whether what you're feeling is even real. And you'll start buying into this other person's lie that actually it's you causing the problem.

Roula (05:17)
Yeah.

Rosie (05:31)
That's my understanding of gaslighting, but I think it's quite a complex topic, but that's kind of, that's my understanding.

Roula (05:39)
But

in a nutshell, you said relationships, and I was thinking, gosh, I think every HR department guest-light the employees, not only relationships. But it's true. could be a romantic relationship. It could be with a family, mother, father, children. There's a guest-lighting dynamic happening. I don't know if it's a dynamic, but someone has this dynamic, and then you start doubting. And then when these dynamics and interactions happened,

Rosie (05:47)
f***. yeah. Ye- So true. This is so true. Yeah.

Anyone? Yeah!

Yeah.

Roula (06:09)
then we don't know anymore what we're feeling, if what we're feeling is our responsibility or is someone else making us feel this way.

Rosie (06:17)
It gets very messy. So what was the initial question? What was it?

Roula (06:18)
Yeah

The initial

question is that, is it like the responsibility of others to make you feel better? And it's spot on on what you just talked about. Because if someone gets slighting you or telling you, look how you're making me feel or what you said hurt me, then you have the, not you Rosie, but as a person, then we have the tendency to want to make it better, to make them feel better. And then we forget how we're feeling ourselves.

Rosie (06:30)
No.

Yeah, yeah.

then we're caught up. That is

an abusive situation. That's what, but I think especially as women, this is gonna really ruffle some feathers. We are conditioned to,

Rulers flapping our chicken wings. Of course you are. Go watch us on YouTube. Subscribe.

Where was I even going? Yes, we're conditioned to appease So if we might have valid feelings, all our feelings are valid. If they're our feelings, they're valid. That's how we feel. It's our truth. And we tell them something and they get upset and defensive and then start saying, we are the ones who caused the problem. Maybe we did have a role to play, but they're just not listening. They're shoving it back in your face.

we often will try to appease them and try to make them feel better. no, no, no, I didn't mean it like that. I'm not saying you're bad person to, you know, try to backpedal a bit.

Roula (07:44)
then where left felt like shit. Because, right? Yeah.

Rosie (07:47)
Right. What the fuck?

Yeah, that's bullshit. So I think if you're going into a difficult conversation, because that's kind of what this is about, you're going into a difficult conversation, I think you should put some thought into how you do it. Because hopefully, if you're broaching this subject is because you want to resolve it and work through it. So I wouldn't come to you ruler and just

I don't know, maybe you just finished dinner with your family and I'm going to storm into your house and go, you're really pissing me off Roula. I'm going to shout like that. I really don't like how you're not editing enough episodes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just a random example. That probably isn't going to result in a very productive conversation. So I think it's worth me thinking about it. I might be very upset, but I might say, Hey, do you have some time this week to have a chat or something?

Or even if we don't plan it, I might come in and say, Hey, Roula, you know, have you got a minute? I just want to have a chat rather than barging in and start shouting.

Roula (08:52)
Because even these unspoken words, the

fact that someone would come angry or say hurtful things, etc. They're not saying this how you're making me feel. The receiver feels like, ⁓ I did something and that's why they're angry. And I have to fix it.

Rosie (09:10)
Mm. Mm.

but that's a different response altogether. We haven't touched on that response yet. Okay, so the other person feeling like they have to make it better. Ooh. Yeah, that's something we're conditioned to do as well, isn't it? But we don't have to fix the problem. I think we have to have an open conversation, try to understand where the other is coming from. Right. I agree. Yeah.

Roula (09:34)
Hmm, we don't have to fix the feelings, but we do have to talk about the problem.

Rosie (09:42)
And there's a difference between being defensive and actually sharing. Sharing why maybe it happened. So.

I think the first thing you need to do is acknowledge the other person's feelings. That's so important. And then it's like, hey, let's reflect on this and be like, ⁓ I think I did that.

Roula (10:03)
I like this

sentence. Let's reflect on this together. It's better than saying let's have a chat. I love it. Yeah.

Rosie (10:08)
together. True. Let's have a chat. Yeah.

And it's accountability. If you're reflecting its accountability, again, our audience is going to be sick of this word accountability, Rola. I think our numbers might start diving.

Roula (10:24)
No, if they're accountable, they will not get sick of it. And our podcast might not be for everyone. The unaccountable one, that's not their podcast.

Rosie (10:27)
That's true. We don't want people here who aren't accountable. You piss off. Don't want you. Yep.

When you're ready to be accountable, come back.

Roula (10:37)
Ha!

Rosie (10:39)
It's not about making the other one feel better. I think it's about connection and trying to come to some sort of resolution. But I also think sometimes the resolution is no longer having a relationship with that person. And that's okay. You don't always have to make it work. You can walk away. That's okay. It's not failing.

Roula (10:58)
okay.

Because if you have these feelings, whatever feelings you're going through, and you reflect and you decide to calmly, genuinely, and kindly address them, and the other person still overreacts, then it's a sign that it's not your responsibility how they're feeling. Because you took all the rational steps.

Rosie (11:14)
Right. Uh huh.

Roula (11:29)
to have an open, honest, respectful, kind conversation.

Rosie (11:34)
and they're not willing to do that. Yeah.

Roula (11:36)
Yes, I'm guilty of this. I can also go like, know, I'm so bothered or why did you do this? then I realize we practice this at home. We talk about this topic very much. And then, OK, no, no, no, I can do better next time. I'm going to go next time. I will not go in the moment, the heat of the moment. I'm going to reflect and go with the kindness.

Rosie (11:38)
Mmm? Mmm?

Okay,

Roula (12:03)
and respect and understanding to this conversation. And yes, I cannot say that the other person will always be open for it and accepting for it, but it's not my responsibility what they're feeling. I only have control over how I do it.

Rosie (12:16)
And do

you think it's your responsibility to go to the other person and tell them what's upsetting you?

Roula (12:26)
definitely.

And the way we do it is getting an overreaction or a good reaction. And as you said, if the other person, no matter what we do, is overreacting, then they're just gaslighting us. Or they're having like, I mean, we're no expert to talk about narcissism, but we all have, we all have something in us. Yes, we know. Yeah. So our responsibility is to sit with our feeling.

Rosie (12:41)
Mm.

No, definitely it is an actual condition people. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (12:58)
understand it and take it kindly to the other person. And if they... yeah.

Rosie (13:04)
Okay. I just want to interject. Yeah.

You continue. I interjected at the wrong moment. No. Okay. My interjection would be, and I say this because I fall into this trap.

Roula (13:11)
No, no, don't, don't, I do.

Rosie (13:20)
We don't have to go to the other person. If we want to continue a relationship with them, yes, we do. We are accountable. We need to go to them. If it's crossed a line and we want to walk away, you don't owe them an explanation. You don't owe them anything. Would you agree?

Roula (13:36)
even with a person

you want to relate the relationship with, choose your battles.

Rosie (13:39)
I don't know if you

choose your battles well, true? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But can you live with that?

Roula (13:45)
is it

well then if a person cannot live they want to fight every battle ⁓ their life must be really hard

Rosie (13:55)
This is true. Focus on the important things.

Roula (13:59)
Yeah.

Rosie (14:00)
Mm.

Roula (14:02)
And I really learned this in the therapy I had when we were having difficult times, especially with my teenage daughters. I learned in therapy to choose my battles. Not everything I should battle with, not everything I want to be, I should not worry about everything. And when I worry about everything, I make a battle out of everything.

Rosie (14:15)
Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Roula (14:29)
And so I say it with real, sincere trust that we must choose our battles.

Rosie (14:38)
And it's not to say we should just quash down these things that are annoying us, but it's about looking at it, isn't it? And going, well, is this worth being upset about? Is it really worth all this anguish and an argument because it pisses me off that they loaded the dishwasher in a different order than I do? Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't.

Roula (14:57)
And it's, Rosie, 90 % of the time, something

we could have done differently ourselves, like loading the dishwasher. Why does it have to be my way?

Rosie (15:03)
Yeah. Yeah. huh. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. You're almost creating the problem.

Roula (15:17)
Yeah.

Rosie (15:18)
Mmm.

Roula (15:20)
conversation. It went a little bit deep and it wasn't as playful and fun as usual, but you know people were living our lives every day and this is where we're getting our topics from.

Rosie (15:25)
Plip.

I liked this one actually, it was good.

Roula (15:37)
Thank you for listening.

Rosie (15:39)
Thank you. Bye.

Roula (15:41)
Bye!