The Rosie and Roula Show

93: Period Talk - How Menstruation Can Be A Time For Connection And Understanding

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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Ever felt like your body is betraying you once a month? You're not alone. In this episode, we dive deep into the often unspoken world of menstruation and its surprising role in fostering connection.

In this episode, we unpack:

  • How menstruation can be a time for connection and understanding within families
  • The importance of educating both boys and girls about menstrual cycles
  • Personal stories of navigating the emotional and physical challenges of periods
  • Strategies for open communication and support during this time

Roula opens up about her emotional journey and the impact of hormonal changes, while Rosie shares her own experiences and insights. Together, they explore how embracing this natural process can strengthen relationships and promote empathy.

Whether you experience menstruation or know someone who does, this episode is a must-listen for fostering compassion and connection.

How do you approach conversations about menstruation in your life?

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Rosie (00:00)
Hmm

Roula (00:00)
Rosier, rosier, rosier.

I love your dancing

movies. Seriously.

Rosie (00:07)
decided I'm

I know, right.

Roula (00:08)
I you cannot dance and your choice of music is horrible.

But I just like watching you. ⁓ my god this sounds so bad.

is this now the time to talk about menstruation pain or it's too much drama?

Rosie (00:34)
Why not?

Really? When is anything too much drama for us, Roula

Roula (00:41)
Yeah. Okay, so it's on my mind because when I was younger and a teenager and before I moved to the Netherlands, I had extreme menstrual pain. I really couldn't stand. I had to take heavy medication to calm the pain. My legs hurt. My knees felt so weak and I couldn't stand up. Lower stomach pain, lower back pain. It was agonizing.

Rosie (00:55)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Roula (01:10)
for two days. And everyone back then tells me, the older people, women, of course, telling me, when you get married, the pain will go away. And I'm like, what do they mean when I get married, the pain will go away? And then I grew up and I understood maybe they mean when I have sex. OK, I had sex. They didn't know the pain didn't go away. And I what do they mean? Maybe when I have children.

Rosie (01:22)
Whoosh!

Why would the pain go away?

Roula (01:36)
And yes, it got less after children but the whole menstrual pain changed into something different. What's your experience?

Rosie (01:43)
interesting.

It was awful. I think I got my period when I was 13 and was just unbelievably heavy, unbelievably painful. Like I would collapse from the pain, sort of And it's just sort of not spoken about. It is more so now, but it's, it's just accepted periods are painful. And if you complain about it, you're just a wuss, like get over it.

Roula (02:13)
Yes, period pain is painful. You're not the only one on earth who have this pain. So just get on with your day. The problem is the pain is so paralyzing sometimes. As you said, barely can, you want to go in the fetus position. And sometimes the medicine, the

painkillers that we can buy on the countertop or a shelf, they are not strong enough. And my experience is that no one really take the pain seriously to give a strong painkiller.

Rosie (02:40)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Right, Doctors are dismissive.

Roula (02:58)
Yes, again, and this idea that but everyone have menstruation. Why do you feel different? Why do you have to take heavy medicine because the pain is painful? It's painful. And honestly, well, I don't like to use the word honestly, because I'm being honest all the time. No white lies today. The thing is, when I gave natural birth,

Rosie (03:17)
Honestly?

Mm.

Roula (03:26)
without

painkiller this is when i understood fuck every month we're having some kind of contraction pain and it's called menstrual pain

Rosie (03:36)
Hmm...

Huh!

You're comparing it to labour? Yeah, what?

Roula (03:43)
Let this simmer with you a little bit.

Yes, I didn't know it feels like the labor pain because I see no one. Actually, they don't say it because if we say this menstrual pain is compared to the labor pain to a certain extent, because labor pain can get much more than maybe women are scared of going through labor.

Rosie (03:50)
I didn't know this.

What?

Right.

Roula (04:13)
Or, where I'm undermining labor pain. How dare I compare it to my struggle pain.

Rosie (04:17)
Ooh, yes,

yes. I think that one's probably more likely. How dare you? Yeah. But it's awful, isn't it? It's not fun. Having period pain.

Roula (04:27)
Yes.

Rosie (04:34)
Everybody has a different level of pain, I think, but...

Roula (04:38)
Some don't.

Rosie (04:40)
Wow, yeah, I'm jealous.

Roula (04:43)
And I think I remember my brother used to look at me, he was also a teenager. I'm in this agonizing pain, crying and like screaming, I want this pain to go away. And he's looking at me telling to my mom, I remember this one time, shouldn't we take her to the hospital? He was concerned, what's going on? And my mom told him, no, no, it will go away in a few hours, it's normal. And I don't blame her. Yes, it's normal.

Rosie (05:00)
Mmm... Yeah, yeah.

Roula (05:13)
I only think that...

Rosie (05:13)
Wow, screaming in pain you

think that's normal? Really? That's not normal.

Roula (05:19)
Yes, in the Lebanese

culture, even here in the Netherlands, I really met a woman doctor, woman hormonal doctor, and she explained to me that we don't have to go through this pain. There are ways with vitamins, supplements, and some holistic, probably, preparation to not go through this pain, or there is something in our body

Rosie (05:40)
Right.

Roula (05:48)
that need more attention than others to reduce the pain. But these all are talks of they're not even now in practice. And this episode might seem boring to some people, but I'm telling you, we have also to educate our boys to understand what menstrual pain is. So they can support.

Rosie (05:57)
Hmm.

⁓ yeah. How would you describe it?

How would you describe it to someone who hasn't experienced it?

Roula (06:12)
Okay, before the pain comes...

We feel it, we feel it in our mood. We're not, they call us, she's bitchy. she's today, she's gonna have her period, so don't talk to her. On the contrary, we have to teach the environment around us to embrace that person who's going through this hard menstrual time of the month. Remember, if we don't have this, we can't have children. And if we don't have children, the humanity will stop.

Rosie (06:21)
Mmm.

Mmm.

true.

Mmm.

Roula (06:50)
This pain is there for a reason and teaching the people around us how to care for the person. So when I want to describe this pain, I can say, I truly, truly cannot stand on my feet. I cannot stand up. And it's hard to explain it because...

Rosie (07:09)
Mmm.

Roula (07:15)
If you didn't go through labor pain, I mean, I went through labor pain. I still can't explain it. It feels like my body is going into pieces, two pieces. And if I talk about this, this also not talked about, you know, we don't want women to be scared from labor pain, but it's so fucking painful.

Rosie (07:22)
Wow, yeah.

Yeah!

Roula (07:34)
No one wants his body to be split in two pieces.

And this is the pain. The mood changes, but also the mood changes because we're scared of what's coming up. We know the pain is coming. We know we have to perform on our day. We have to go to work, put a smile on our face and act like we don't have our periods because if she says she has her period, ⁓ gosh, she's so whiny. You're not the only one on earth.

Rosie (08:00)
⁓ right, right!

I grew up not sharing when I was on my period. You can't talk about that! my god! But why the fuck not?

Roula (08:13)
yeah if you're if you're at the office or wherever you're going to change your menstrual pad hide it no one should see that you're walking with it

Rosie (08:20)
Yes! my god, yes!

Yes! Yes! It's shameful. Gotta hide. That's so wrong. Mmm.

Roula (08:26)
Yep.

Yes.

Don't go swimming if you have your

period. Well, which is awesome, actually, because it's stopped for a moment and then it comes back. There's nothing harmful in swimming. Yeah, this thing about menstrual pain that it's only for women is also wrong. I strongly believe education should be for boys, for men. And if we give the title menstrual period, I'm sure not one man will watch.

Rosie (08:43)
Mmm.

I'm not even sure women will listen to be honest.

Roula (09:02)
They will not feel concerned.

Yeah, then maybe we have to give it a different title.

Rosie (09:07)
I know.

I don't know if

there's an equivalent. have to tell me. Some people here say, aunt Flo has arrived or has come to visit. Flo is in the flow of blood. So aunt Flo is what some people say to refer to their period. Cause it's uncomfortable to even say period or I'm menstruating or whatever. We have to use different words.

Roula (09:26)
because

Why do you think it's such a taboo to say I'm menstruating?

Rosie (09:40)
don't know. I think it's just been socialized. It's very, It's gross. Ew. You're bleeding. Ew. It's part of the reproductive cycle. It's part of what makes us human.

Roula (09:56)
Yes. I'm menstruating, so back the fuck off. How about that?

Rosie (09:58)
Mmm.

Yeah!

You should have seen me, Rula. Two days ago? When did I cancel on you? I don't remember. But I followed your etiquette, by the way, for canceling, because I rescheduled. However, on that day, I was furious. Okay, I was working on the van for hours and something just wasn't going my way. So I was working under the bonnet. So I grabbed the bonnet. I slammed it down really hard, made this huge bang and I went, fuck this!

stormed into the band, slammed shut the door. Next day I got my period and I was like, ⁓ that might've had something to do with it.

Roula (10:43)
Yes, I want to come back to this. That's a very important topic. I'll tell you how my menstrual pain is now that I turned 50.

Rosie (10:51)
yes, yes.

Roula (10:54)
⁓ I sit in my car sobbing thinking of suicide thinking that I have nothing to live for

Rosie (11:01)
⁓

Roula (11:08)
I never had suicidal thoughts, never. I'm positive, don't think that there is a reason, there's a reason for me to make an end for my life. I'm mentally stable, I do the work. I don't have these thoughts, dark thoughts at all. And then these thoughts started after, I think, like a year ago.

Rosie (11:32)
Mmm.

Roula (11:33)
And the problem is I don't bleed because I have a spiraltia. How do you call it in English? The contraception?

Rosie (11:44)
The,

what's the proper name? The tea bar thing? The Marina, is it? I don't remember. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, that. Okay, yes.

Roula (11:50)
Yeah. Yes, yes, that's the brand. That's the brand. OK.

Which means I don't bleed, so I don't know that it's not like, oh, shit, I had my period, so that's why I wanted to kill myself. And for the for for days, I go through this. And what I do is that I make it reason to leave the house because I just need to cry it out. I need to cry. I need to.

Rosie (12:00)
Yes.

Right.

Roula (12:20)
feel the pain, ⁓ the darkness, crazy, crazy, crazy shit is happening to me. This was happening every month until. ⁓ But also it was affecting my relationship at home because I'm thinking of divorce. I'm thinking of leaving everyone and leaving the house. Just get out of here. Very dark thoughts. And then.

Rosie (12:26)
And this happens every month.

Ooh, until yes, do share.

Yeah! Wow!

Mm-hmm.

Roula (12:50)
I had this conversation with my husband. I said, no, he sets me down. And he said, what's going on? Like, you are not this person and what's going on? And we talked about it. I told him that, because every time I'm going through this, we're arguing, we're going through dark time, him and I together. And I think that this number gonna end and after a few days, I'm fine. He's so fucking confused.

Rosie (12:58)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Roula (13:20)
What is going on?

So we had a conversation. I explained to him that I kept a journal and my findings is that this is how my period is expressing itself lately. I don't have much pain or no pain at all. I have dark thoughts. I feel that my life is shit. I need to get away. No one deserves me. All these kind of things.

Rosie (13:36)
Mmm.

Roula (13:49)
And we agreed on something. It's that when I feel these thoughts are coming, I go to him. And I tell him, listen, I feel this is coming so he can support me and supporting me. We agreed instead of getting angry at me, turn his back, get offensive, defensive and argue with me. I told him I need love and affection and to know that you're there for me through these. I'm feeling a bit emotional, actually.

Rosie (14:19)
Mmm.

Roula (14:28)
conversation.

Rosie (14:30)
Yeah. And I don't think this is something that...

many couples have had the conversation about.

Roula (14:41)
No, because women, I take this as an, I take myself as an example, ⁓ we must face this demon in our thoughts, in our hearts. We must face it and accept that it's temporary. It's just a few days it's going to go away. We should not ruin our life and our marriage based on it. And, and openly talk about it.

The fear, the fear, Rosie, I'm coming back to what you said that you slapped the door of the car and if people see you, see you behaving like this, they think you're such a shitty character person. Dangerous to be around. Even though, despite how much we feel awful during period, the rate of prisoners is, man is higher than woman, because I think every woman in her month.

Rosie (15:21)
Yes, yeah.

Hahaha!

Roula (15:39)
period she can commit murder.

And yes, it can be held against you that you are that person

Rosie (15:51)
Yeah.

and keep yourself under control.

Roula (15:58)
Yeah, that's a tough one. You need some support system.

Rosie (15:59)
like control your emotion. Your husband didn't

say to you, well, cut it out. You know, that's not okay. What's wrong with you? Well, there was an expression of concern. This isn't like you, but how did you, like, how did you figure out it was to do with your hormones and that it wasn't, for example, depression? Because suicidal thoughts, all these things. ⁓

Roula (16:09)
Yeah.

That's so funny.

Yeah. It's a little bit of life experience, but also because my kid, my daughter, she and I, we have our period at the same time. At least that's what I thought when I used to have period pain. And then the fact that they completely disappeared out of nowhere, like...

Rosie (16:28)
Mmm.

Roula (16:40)
That made me truly believe these are my hormones, this is my period, that's not me.

Rosie (16:46)
Hmm.

Roula (16:48)
Because it's hard. Maybe you can relate to it after you had your period. You don't even remember whatever made you angry.

Rosie (16:59)
No, yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah, you just, your fuse is so short, or for me anyway, but-

Roula (17:07)
Yes.

Rosie (17:10)
You must have thought you were going mad before you figured out what was happening.

Roula (17:16)
Yeah.

Rosie (17:17)
That's really scary.

Roula (17:20)
It was very scary. It was very scary. It's like what the fuck is happening? Why am I? Who am I?

Rosie (17:28)
And

did you talk to your girlfriends about this? Like, is this a common thing? Yeah.

Roula (17:32)
No,

no, I didn't talk to my girlfriends because in that time I didn't feel like talking to anyone.

Rosie (17:41)
Okay, yeah.

Roula (17:43)
And the fact that I talked to my husband about it, I didn't need to share it any further yet because... And from that moment, we're managing it really greatly. When I feel I'm getting triggered, I tell him. And I also know when my trigger is not... I'm not able to put the positive thoughts in my head, then I know I'm going through this period shit.

Rosie (17:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

This needs to be spoken about more. I wasn't told about the change in hormones and how, like I just knew, women get their period and they're really moody and they eat chocolate when they're on their period. That's the level of my education. Why isn't this discussed? And hearing your experience, I'm going, ⁓ well, maybe now I can be aware of that. So when I go into perimenopause,

Roula (18:24)
True.

Rosie (18:41)
If I start having these thoughts and feelings, might go, ⁓ hang on. Rueless said she went through something like this. I wonder if it's that.

Roula (18:51)
Yes.

Rosie (18:52)
Did anyone warn you?

Roula (18:54)
No, no, no one warned me. But I'm reading a lot about perimenopause and this hormonal doctor talked to me also about menstrual cycle because I was asking her for my daughters. How can I support them? Is there anything? ⁓

Rosie (19:11)
Mm.

Roula (19:14)
any vitamin that's good to take throughout the month, supplements so that they have less pain with their period. She explained the whole process and explained a lot to me. She gave me a good lesson. ⁓ And what's very important, Rosie, I would like us to really voice it very loud on this episode, is that yes, the woman is going through this, but it involves the family. And it's so good.

Rosie (19:37)
Yes!

Roula (19:38)
to be considerate and loving and take things with a grain of salt in this period of time, in this week. And for the woman to say, listen, I'm going to have my period. I'm feeling my fuse is short. I cannot have too much. Support me because we don't ask for that. We are strong and we can do it. We don't need help.

Rosie (19:56)
Mmm.

fuck, yeah, and we have to go through it alone. But then I think the danger is if you're sharing your on your period and maybe you can't handle as much right now, do you think people are gonna use that as an excuse?

Roula (20:15)
Yes, because they're not used to be compassionate and accepting and understand the process. So yes, they use it. And it's on us to educate them in a kind and positive way.

Rosie (20:22)
⁓

Yes!

Okay. Frick. This is a big topic. This has been a longer episode because I think there's a lot of layers and you shared something really deep and I just want to say thank you for being so brave and vulnerable. Like that's... you've put that out there and I'm sure there will be women listening, people who menstruate as well, that go, fuck.

Roula (20:38)
Yeah. True. True.

Rosie (20:59)
I've been through that. I'm not crazy. I'm going through that.

Roula (21:06)
Yes, this is half of the population go through it. Our kids, our daughters are growing and they're going to have their menstrual pain. Our boys are growing and they need to understand the process so they can at a very young age support the women in their life, the sisters, the mothers. They should not see it as a weakness. They should see it as a blessing. And how can they contribute in making this difficult time pass?

Rosie (21:07)
You don't have to be alone.

Right.

Yeah, it's part of the human connection. It happens, you know, roughly every month. Obviously it's different for everybody, or maybe that's not obvious to some people who don't know. So why, why do we not embrace it as part of who we are and how we interact with people? This needs to change.

Roula (21:52)
Yes, let's carry our period with a badge of honor. Share it. And you know what, Rosie? I think I know what title we're going to give this episode. How menstrual time is connection time.

Rosie (21:55)
Mmm, all right.

Mm.

What title?

Ooh, ho, I like it. I like it. ⁓ We're risky. We're always risky. Let us know everyone. What are your thoughts on periods? Have you been through something like ruler? Do you keep your period a secret? Is it painful?

Roula (22:13)
It's such a risky one.

And for the guys out there, how do you feel when you're with a woman and your life has her periods? And what do you like to do to know more so you can support her?

Rosie (22:42)
All right, catching the next one.

Roula (22:46)
Thank you. Bye.